Advice for Tomb Kings tactics & army list

[NIGHTBRINGER]

And now I can see that it’s one of the most pointless wastes of fifty points ever. Even the Banner of the Hidden Dead has arguably more uses even if it does cost more - having a deep-striking unit would at least give your opponent something to worry about.

I am definitely not a fan of the Banner of the Hidden Dead. The banner costs you 90pts, plus 60pts for the Tomb Herald, plus 25pts to make the Tomb Herald a BSB. That's 175 points!!! ... and 275 victory points for your opponent if he kills your very squishy bsb.

If you want to harass or threaten the enemies' back lines using EBtS, we already have the following options:

• Prince Apophas
• Necropolis Knights with the 5 points/model upgrade
• Tomb Scorpion
• Tomb Swarm
• Sepulchral Stalkers

If you take the banner, what unit would you Entomb that is better than all of those choices above?

• Skeleton Warriors would be pretty stranded by themselves
• Skeleton Archers are better placed in a protected position behind your combat lines
• Skeleton Horsemen aren't really a competitive choice, plus they can already vanguard as is
• Skeleton Horse Archers already have the Scouts special rule
• Skeleton Chariots have some punch, but for the cost of 3 chariots + banner + bsb, why not just entomb Necroknights instead?
• Tomb Guard would be too few in number... Necroknights would function much better in such a position

 

[Killer Angel]

I am definitely not a fan of the Banner of the Hidden Dead. The banner costs you 90pts, plus 60pts for the Tomb Herald, plus 25pts to make the Tomb Herald a BSB. That's 175 points!!! ... and 275 victory points for your opponent if he kills your very squishy bsb.

If you want to harass or threaten the enemies' back lines using EBtS, we already have the following options:

• Prince Apophas
• Necropolis Knights with the 5 points/model upgrade
• Tomb Scorpion
• Tomb Swarm
• Sepulchral Stalkers

If you take the banner, what unit would you Entomb that is better than all of those choices above?

• Skeleton Warriors would be pretty stranded by themselves
• Skeleton Archers are better placed in a protected position behind your combat lines
• Skeleton Horsemen aren't really a competitive choice, plus they can already vanguard as is
• Skeleton Horse Archers already have the Scouts special rule
• Skeleton Chariots have some punch, but for the cost of 3 chariots + banner + bsb, why not just entomb Necroknights instead?
• Tomb Guard would be too few in number... Necroknights would function much better in such a position

Yes, entombed necroknights would be the best choice

 

[Lizards of Renown]

Hmmmmm.....

@NIGHTBRINGER I made the mistake of doing the Math-hammer on combats between my units and a CW unit (not even counting the lord/hero that will inevitably be in there) and it is a massacre... MAYBE if I had 2 magical buffs on the unit they wouldn't be completely wiped-out, but combat turn TWO (?!?!?) they would definitely be...

Mahrlect...

Need to come up with a really bright idea (or ideas)...

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

@NIGHTBRINGER I made the mistake of doing the Math-hammer on combats between my units and a CW unit (not even counting the lord/hero that will inevitably be in there) and it is a massacre... MAYBE if I had 2 magical buffs on the unit they wouldn't be completely wiped-out, but combat turn TWO (?!?!?) they would definitely be...

No doubt about it, Chaos Warriors are better. However, in the context of your 40 man TG unit against his 25 man WoC unit, it is still a pretty close battle (although your unit costs more).



Keep in mind that, before characters and command, your unit costs 565 points, while his unit only comes to 450. Although I did not factor in the attacks or points cost of your TK, for the sake of this match-up, I did give your Tomb Guard the WS6 granted to them by the TK. I also assumed, that the WoC passed their fear check.

Casting a key buff or hex would turn the battle in your favour (although remembering that it is an uneven battle in terms of points cost):

• Incantation of Protection
• Incantation of Righteous Smiting
• Incantation of Desiccation
• Pha's Protection
• Birona's Timewarp
• Soul Blight

Of course, magical assistance in that all important first round of combat comes down to getting the charge! The chaff battle can play a very large part in this.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Yes, entombed necroknights would be the best choice

Necroknights are definitely the strongest close combat entombed unit. When they pop up, the enemy is pretty much forced to alter their battle plans to some degree, because they won't want those things getting a rear charge. Stalkers have the distinction of being the only entombed unit to be able to do anything significant on the turn they arrive (Apophas can drop his breath weapon, but he is a waste of points). I've never tried Scorpions myself as I'd rather take 3 Stalkers than 2 Scorpions. At least they are fairly cheap. Anyone have any success using Scorpions?

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Necroknights are definitely the strongest close combat entombed unit. When they pop up, the enemy is pretty much forced to alter their battle plans to some degree, because they won't want those things getting a rear charge. I've never tried Scorpions myself as I'd rather take 3 Stalkers than 2 Scorpions. At least they are fairly cheap. Anyone have any success using Scorpions?

2 Scorpions would be more useful against multiple artillery targets like the multiple Hellcannons in the WoC build we're fighting as each Scorpion is a separate unit and can go after a different machine, but if you're up against an army without any especially squishy targets hiding in the back ranks then Stalkers would be more useful in facilitating flank and rear charges and generally supporting your battleline. As for Necropolis Knights, unless the enemy is specifically keeping some non-war machine units hiding at the back to charge any Entombed units, it won't matter too much if the Knights can't charge on the turn they arrive because the enemy would have to make a reform move to turn about-face and avoid a rear charge, which would count as a march move and give you the chance to charge in your next turn without fear of shooting - if you're already threatening said units from the front, your enemy won't be able to avoid a rear charge!

Now that I think about it, Entombing your Necropolis Knights would actually be the best strategy for them because it would avoid them getting charged in the early turns by anything like enemy Monstrous Cavalry against whom they'd struggle against, and would allow them to really scare the living daylights out of your foe when they pop up right behind their main battleline.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

2 Scorpions would be more useful against multiple artillery targets like the multiple Hellcannons in the WoC build we're fighting as each Scorpion is a separate unit and can go after a different machine

Do you mean with the intention of holding it up or a turn or two? Because in the long run, the Tomb Scorpion is ultimately no match against the Hellcannon.

 

[Lizards of Renown]

Do you mean with the intention of holding it up or a turn or two? Because in the long run, the Tomb Scorpion is ultimately no match against the Hellcannon.

Don't think it will even last that long. If you're even slightly unlucky, between the Hellcannon and the 3 Chaos Dwarf Handlers you're most likely toast in the first round.

Seems like Stalkers are far better equipped to pop up, do an average of 14 shots and on average you should kill the Hellcannon (wounding on 5's, no armour save allowed, 5++ save).

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Do you mean with the intention of holding it up or a turn or two? Because in the long run, the Tomb Scorpion is ultimately no match against the Hellcannon.

Ah forgot that the cannon attacks as well as the Dwarf crew. And of course WoC have to have the one artillery piece in the game that makes has its own set of attacks

 

[Killer Angel]

. Anyone have any success using Scorpions?

to be fair, i've never tried them.
Stalkers on paper are so much better... a pity, because i like scorpions.

I would love to hear some reliable use for them

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Ah forgot that the cannon attacks as well as the Dwarf crew. And of course WoC have to have the one artillery piece in the game that makes has its own set of attacks

That's the main feature of the hellcannon, that it doubles as a monster. If it was just a stone thrower it would be massively over-costed.

While it might seem weird to have the actual artillery piece make attacks, rules-wise, the hellcannon is hardly the only "war machine type" entity that can defend itself in close combat.

In CC the Hellcannon has:

• 5 S5 attacks
• 3 S3 attacks
• S5 thunderstomp

By comparison the Ogres' Ironblaster has:

• 3 S4 attacks
• 1 S2 attack
• 3 S5 attacks
• D6 S5 impact hits

The Hellcannon is more combat orientated with it being unbreakable and boasting a ward save, but the Ironblaster is better in the shooting phase and costs less. Rules-wise I would rather be able to field an Ironblaster in my WoC than a Hellcannon.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

to be fair, i've never tried them.
Stalkers on paper are so much better... a pity, because i like scorpions.

I would love to hear some reliable use for them

Not being able to charge on the turn they emerge (like in the previous edition) really hurts them. At least Stalkers can shoot on the turn they arrive.

 

[Lizards of Renown]

Not being able to charge on the turn they emerge (like in the previous edition) really hurts them. At least Stalkers can shoot on the turn they arrive.

Some of the Tomb King units I got because I think the model and lore are great. Scorpions were one of those, but I'll definitely end up using them, probably when I play my planned 5K TK's army battle with my friend. that will be fun if for no other reason than I will use all my models.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Don't think it will even last that long. If you're even slightly unlucky, between the Hellcannon and the 3 Chaos Dwarf Handlers you're most likely toast in the first round.

So the Tomb Scorpion shouldn't die until the end of the second round of combat.

Seems like Stalkers are far better equipped to pop up, do an average of 14 shots

3 Stalkers average 15 shots.

A single Stalker can roll 0, 2, 4, 6, 8 or 10 hits. So we have [0+2+4+6+8+10]/6 = 5

and on average you should kill the Hellcannon (wounding on 5's, no armour save allowed, 5++ save).

I wouldn't count the Hellcannon out in a single round:



3 Stalkers, in a single round of shooting will on average cause:

• 2.2 wounds to the Hellcannon itself
• kill one Chaos Dwarf handler

That calculation above is assuming that we are using the crew's Initiative of 2. If we instead use the Hellcannon's initiative of 1 we get:


So 3.3 wounds on the Hellcannon itself, and 1-2 Chaos Dwarf Handlers dead.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Some of the Tomb King units I got because I think the model and lore are great

Let's be honest, that's the main reason to play Tomb Kings in the first place!

 

[Killer Angel]

Not being able to charge on the turn they emerge (like in the previous edition) really hurts them. At least Stalkers can shoot on the turn they arrive.

That's pretty much it.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Hmmmmm.....

@NIGHTBRINGER I made the mistake of doing the Math-hammer on combats between my units and a CW unit (not even counting the lord/hero that will inevitably be in there) and it is a massacre... MAYBE if I had 2 magical buffs on the unit they wouldn't be completely wiped-out, but combat turn TWO (?!?!?) they would definitely be...

Mahrlect...

Need to come up with a really bright idea (or ideas)...

Have you hatched any new schemes?

 

[Lizards of Renown]

Have you hatched any new schemes?

As a matter of fact, yes...

I have to sleep now, but will post them tomorrow.

 

[Lizards of Renown]

"What are we going to do tonight, Lizards of Renown?"

"The same thing we do every night, Nightbringer, try to take over the WORLD!....

"....

"... with Tomb Kings"

 

[Lizards of Renown]

No doubt about it, Chaos Warriors are better. However, in the context of your 40 man TG unit against his 25 man WoC unit, it is still a pretty close battle (although your unit costs more).

View attachment 78782

Keep in mind that, before characters and command, your unit costs 565 points, while his unit only comes to 450. Although I did not factor in the attacks or points cost of your TK, for the sake of this match-up, I did give your Tomb Guard the WS6 granted to them by the TK. I also assumed, that the WoC passed their fear check.

Casting a key buff or hex would turn the battle in your favour (although remembering that it is an uneven battle in terms of points cost):

• Incantation of Protection
• Incantation of Righteous Smiting
• Incantation of Desiccation
• Pha's Protection
• Birona's Timewarp
• Soul Blight

Of course, magical assistance in that all important first round of combat comes down to getting the charge! The chaff battle can play a very large part in this.

I think that with characters the WoC unit then goes up a fair bit on the mathhammer...

Plus, as you point out the only way to give them a fighting chance is to have a TK (not Prince, a flipping KING) which is a gigantic point sink and means I can have one feasible combat unit.

The Mark of Nurgle is a real killer here. Without that one point I'd be willing to sink some points into two units of TG.