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8th Ed. Exploring our core options: Saurus vs. Skrox vs. "Vanilla" Cohort

Discussion in 'Lizardmen & Saurian Ancients Discussion' started by NIGHTBRINGER, Apr 16, 2015.

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What is your favorite core choice combat block?

  1. Saurus Warriors

    36 vote(s)
    78.3%
  2. Skrox (Cohort with one or more Kroxigors) installed

    6 vote(s)
    13.0%
  3. Skink Cohort (without Kroxigors)

    4 vote(s)
    8.7%
  1. SilverFaith
    Terradon

    SilverFaith Member

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    If you want to have some powerful, multihit attacks on the flank, I'd much rather have Rippers. They are significantly faster, and can dish out a ton of attacks, especially if you toaded said unit. S7 is rarely worth it against most things you want to flank, and let's face it, a main combat block wont get in a flank charge unless the enemy messed up somehow.

    That said, I have had some good results using Skroxigor units. The dwarf player I tried them against for the first time was rather surprised to get 6 S7 attacks thrown on his dwarf lord from those kroxigors. But I guess Dwarfs, Chaos, and similarly armoured armies (Lizardmen using saurus too, ironically) is their favoured matchups. Against elves, and undeads+skaven especially, they are just too inefficient. They want good AS targets, as well as T4/T5 targets, not T3 elves or humans with a 5+ AS. Might as well stick to Saurus for that.
     
  2. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    Out of the above choices? Definitely Saurus.

    But I definitely use Skink Skirmishers heavily in my army lists, to pay off the core tax and in my tactics. I think they're an auto-include in pretty much any list.
     
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  3. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    That impacted my thoughts for a while. I have to admit though I find myself underwhelmed by Saurus Warriors. They do well against orcs and goblins, Tomb King minions, and men, but they regularly get schooled by elves, dwarves, Chaos minions, and Vampire counts, at least when I play them.

    I used to pay most of my Core tax with Saurus Warriors. Now I tend to take 25-30 and pay the rest with Skinks.

    I got a gazillion of the old archer Skinks of 5th edition. They rank up real easy.

    Sometimes I would army swap with my friend. Embarassingly enough my friend is better at utilizing Skink Cohort tarpits than I.

    Pure Skink Cohorts have three main purposes. A very skilled opponent can use 10 man blocks of Skinks as redirectors. They also make a decent tarpit if near a Slann general/BSB. The third purpose is to occupy buildings.

    If my opponent and I are playing random BRB scenarios, I like to have a 20 strong unit of Skinks in case of a watch tower scenario. Even if that's not the case, the BRB terrain generator leans towards a lot of buildings. Most of the homebrew generators I created with my friend have a lot of buildings (there are a few exceptions).

    When it's my turn to place terrain I like to put a building near but not in the center of the table. If I can occupy it with 20 Cohort Skinks. With a quick to fire weapon they can do a lot of damage and are expensive to charge. That said, I never know what to do with my 20 Cohort Skinks when I cannot stick them in a building.


    As for Skink Skirmishers. I would almost never play a game without at least two units. I have gone up to five.

    Most people prefer to wield Skink Skirmishers in the minimum unit size. I am a contrarian and I usually used units of 13. The rational is that to panic a unit of 10 Skinks (or 11 or 12), you need to kill 3 skinks with magic or shooting. In a unit of 13 you have to kill 5 to panic them.

    But fielding 4 units of 10 costs about the same as 3 units of 13 and you get a whole other unit to play with.

    Anyway, my thoughts are 10 or 13 or forget about it. I have made units of 12 when they were escorting a Skink priest but more than once special circumstances made me want to put the Skink priest somewhere else making me regret the number 12.

    I once played a 6000 points game, and as an experiment I threw a Skink chief in each of my skirmisher blocks. I made a lot of mistakes but I think the Skink chiefs inclusion was not one of them.

    Real life issues including but not limited to Covid torpedoed our plans for 7000 or 8000 point game. It's briefly made me ponder super Skirmisher units of 20 skirmishers and a Skink chief (they would need to lose 6 skinks to panic) but I think they would be a pain in the butt to maneuver.
     
  4. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    I haven't actually tried this as an option, but it's a pretty good idea. For some reason I hadn't thought of putting them near the Slann, which is me missing the obvious.

    For me Skirmishers are an auto-include on any army list. I really like them.
     
  5. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    I go for Saurus Warriors.
    The few times I've tried Skrox, it ended... not so good.
    Saurus warriors, on the other hand, got a respectable statline (yeah, they are slow which hurts, but it's still the best one in our core, when it come to cc) and when buffed by magic they can offer very good results.
     
  6. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    Slann

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Eleventh Spawning

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    Saurus Warriors all the way, they can take down most enemy Core Choices and some Special and Rare choices with ease. Plus they’re what Lizardmen are all about - hulking reptilian warriors who wreck face are the reason why I started the army. I never leave home without at least one unit (and now I’ve got two decent-sized units I like to take both to fill out my core :D)
     
  7. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    +1

    I love their lore. Born fully grown and ready for battle. Entire regiments striding from the spawning pools to answer the calls of the Old Ones. Fantastic.

    But the Carnosaur was the major deciding factor for me. Being able to have a T-Rex on your army!?!? THAT'S INCREDIBLE!!! Until I started using them... :( ... then was a lot less impressed.
     
  8. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    Slann

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Eleventh Spawning

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    Yeah, I do get some success out of my Carnosaur but when you consider there are monsters like the Arachnarok, K’daai Destroyer, Necrosphinx and Stonehorn out there, GW could have done a lot better when writing the most recent rules for them.
     
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  9. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    The Necorsphinx is typically considered to be an overcosted and underpowered monster.
     
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  10. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    Slann

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Eleventh Spawning

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    But wouldn’t you still say it’s better than the Carnosaur? Given the Necrosphinx is T8, can fly and is unbreakable while the Carnosaur is a glass cannon with poor Leadership (and relies on its Oldblood master to keep up the momentum) I’d say the Necrosphinx is superior.
     
  11. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Yes, the Necrosphinx can fly, but remember that since it can't march, that fly movement is capped at 10". The Carnosaur can march 14". So the Necrosphinx has a greater charge range but the Carnosaur has greater regular movement.

    True, the Necroxsphinx is more defensive than the Carnosaur, but the Carnosaur is significantly more offensive. The Necrosphinx only has a single dangerous attack (Decapitating Strike), while its remaining attacks are only S5.

    While the Necrosphinx is unbreakable, it is also unstable. So that is a bit of a wash. If it was unbreakable without the unstable special rule (like a Hellcannon), I'd look at it differently.

    As for which is better, I don't really know. I don't typically field either, but in my experience I've seen more people create lists with the Carnosaur included than the Necrosphinx. That said, I haven't spent a great deal of time analyzing either of them; they are both underpowered in my opinion and each of their respective armies have far better choices available to them.
     
  12. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    This is very true and unfortunately it is true of two fantastic models.

    (Sigh)

    GW has a lot to answer for.
     
  13. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    The answer was AoS. :p
     
  14. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    Yeah.. the wrong answer! :D
     
  15. Pieter Smeyers
    Cold One

    Pieter Smeyers Active Member

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    Loving this thread... Saurus dude here. They are almost the best core unit in the game.

    However they do suffer a low I so they will almost certainly result in striking last. This I is so crucial in 8th edition. Because it doesn't really matter who charged (only a small bonus in CR). this rule was so strange for us coming from 6th edition and starting to play again.

    But then again, in previous editions and 8th, they only had M4. So they would get charged alot in 8th however you get +2d6, so now you get a charge of more often with saurus, but now you got that rule, strike in I order so meh .

    One thing that bugs me alot is that we only have 3 core choices... Yawn, that has to be the least of every army out there. Heck aren't jungle swarms special now? Doesn't really matter though even if they were core, we still only would have 2 good core choices. Skirmishers and saurus. I'm not even gonnatalk about skink cohords. The skrox unit doesn't really feel good to me. However when i do field them, my opponents tend to fight against the skinks, to get more wounds off i reckon. But i hardly field them,since i would just like more saurus.
     
  16. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    It was fun watching them mulch through the Witch Elves here . Especially as the Witch Elves are one of the best combat units out there.

    I find the biggest advantage of charging is that you get to fight the crucial first round of combat coming directly off your magic phase. A key hex or a buff can radically swing the outcome of the fight.

    Chaos Dwarfs only have two, Infernal Guard and Hobgoblin Cutthroats. Although admittedly there is a fair bit of variation available within each of those choices.

    It feels like the Orcs & Goblins have like a thousand core choices.
     
  17. Lizards of Renown
    Slann

    Lizards of Renown Herald of Creation

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    Yes, I was very glad I requested that fight! We forget that Saurus aren't the BEST but they're still solid infantry.
     
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  18. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    That's true. They are very often overlooked in favour of some of the seemingly more flashy options out there. They are pretty solid though.
     
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  19. Pieter Smeyers
    Cold One

    Pieter Smeyers Active Member

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    Was it in sixth edition we could give our saurus boys, certain blessed spawnings? Improving some stats. They did became special or rare though depending on how many spawnings you gave them. Loved that tbh.

    For O&G i find it normal, they are a horde army, just wished we would have one or two more choices.
     
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  20. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

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    That is correct. Even characters (except Slann) had access to them!
    upload_2020-11-22_14-25-46.png

    And Slann had access to the "Slann Generations" upgrades!
     
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