8th Ed. Gosh, Cold One Riders...WTF?

[Pinktaco]

No, we will not see them being used in tournaments because people are stuck in the past.

http://www.lustria-online.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=13505

I can see you've posted in this thread, but Ripperderek made it quite clear that rippers can be deadly, if you use them properly and they don't die before they get to strike.

Compared to the ancient steg they just aren't as straight forward. They rely on getting into the flank otherwise they'll take too much of a punishment. They have a flimsy tougness on 3 which means that anyone and their dog can put a wound onto them.

I personally also think that if people wasn't stuck in the past we could be seeing more Kroxigors, but as you might've noticed only a handfull of people have bothered to comment on them on the forum.

If we are to strictly follow others opinion we wouldn't ever be seeing Carnosaurs, CORs, Ripperdactyls and Kroxigors.

So yeah, each to their own, but I'd go mad if I knew I'd be bringing the exact same units every single time.

 

[Putzfrau]

I never tried to imply that they never work.

As I said, to each their own. I think they are subpar choice, and clearly you disagree.

That's fine. We will see what's effective a year from now. There are people that do nothing but bring the most powerful lists to the most competitive tournaments. That community isn't concerned about being stuck in the past so if some things good they'll figure it out and start using it.

I'd love if Krox and rippers were more competitive, I just don't see it right now. I'd love if coc were effective. I just don't see it. Hopefully I'll be wrong.

 

[Mr Phat]

I have never been disappointed by my cold ones.

I use them for following

- backup/delivery for my Scarboys
- 1 unit for far flank pressure / deployment feint

- skirmisher guards:
let them meet and beat whatever your opponent sends to hunt skinks. Either its a small thing which the coldboys clear out easy to join other battle, or its an equal costly thing which they should fight more or less equally...
or...the best matchup: the expensive dangerous unit which your opponent send after them as they wanted to get rid of your skinks but had to deal with the boys.
In this case you let him have the skinks and outrun them sending your boys to a more favorable combat.
you just won point advantage for who knows how many turns..just remember bringing a musician if you give them this role.


While I agree that a magic banner and other weapon options (free spears at least) would look nice, they CAN do without..just for more strategic uses.


.... what I would like to add though..
Shouldnt we look at the difference between our cav and "their" cav ?

while we are underarmed as H we are the only guys with a T4 cav. I cant help but wonder if this will be a bigger advantage in 9th than it is now, as paying for T4 is pretty much useless in close combats that "matters" nowdays.

 

[hdctambien]

One of the Dark Elf players here runs his Cold Ones in a single rank with 8 models (I believe). He puts it off on one of his flanks and basically uses it as a big wall that you either have to manuver around, break, or be funneled into his fighty units on the other side


[-------Cold Ones-------] [Fighty Stuff] [More Fighty Stuff]


I wonder if something like that would work for us. Just use them to shrink the board and force your opponent to go into our Saurus blocks.

 

[rantapanda]

I dont see a spot for coc in the liz army. I might very well be wrong or just not enough good of a player..
but head-on fighting they are crap in terms of point value, as are most cavalry.
i think they are too expensive for a mere scarvet delivery system, ive just attached them to skinks when needed.
and tend to love skinks, enough to have them in the field in such numbers that they dont need protection really. skinks can hold their own usually, they can dance the whole game, flee, skurry past blocks, pepper monsters etc.
im sure some people have had good success with them, but im not sure

also krox are kind of one trick ponies which are indeed risky to field, carnosaurs have their place and rippers are good if u know how to use them well.

 

[Sleboda]

I wonder if something like that would work for us. Just use them to shrink the board and force your opponent to go into our Saurus blocks.

=> Having recently played Red Dead Redemption, I am taken with the vision of our Cold Ones acting like cattle herders, sending the enemy into the "pen" of our main lines.

Hmm.

 

[Mr Phat]

=> Having recently played Red Dead Redemption, I am taken with the vision of our Cold Ones acting like cattle herders, sending the enemy into the "pen" of our main lines.

Hmm.

sadly this will only work if the "caddle" fears the coldboys.

if the enemy is strong enough to face them why would they choose our mainline?

 

[The Hunted]

=> Having recently played Red Dead Redemption, I am taken with the vision of our Cold Ones acting like cattle herders, sending the enemy into the "pen" of our main lines.

Hmm.

sadly this will only work if the "caddle" fears the coldboys.

if the enemy is strong enough to face them why would they choose our mainline?

This is not as bad as it sounds. Which in itself sounds really bad

If the enemy does not fear the Cold ones, and go after them; you still take them out of the game for 1-2 maybe even 3 turns (possibly a flee?).
If they don't fear the Cold ones and ignore them; you will likely get a flank charge. Flank charges always gives you a chance to do well, and even if you fail: you are very likely to win the first round of combat. That means you hold your opponent in combat for at least a turn, it fully depends on the unit you are facing if you manage to hold longer.

If they do fear the cold ones...well, that's just nice isn't it!

Either way, you keep that dangerous enemy unit occupied for a while. That could be enough time to crush the remainder of your opponents' forces.

The Hunted

 

[hdctambien]

If the enemy does not fear the Cold ones, and go after them; you still take them out of the game for 1-2 maybe even 3 turns (possibly a flee?).
If they don't fear the Cold ones and ignore them; you will likely get a flank charge. Flank charges always gives you a chance to do well, and even if you fail: you are very likely to win the first round of combat. That means you hold your opponent in combat for at least a turn, it fully depends on the unit you are facing if you manage to hold longer.

If they do fear the cold ones...well, that's just nice isn't it!

Either way, you keep that dangerous enemy unit occupied for a while. That could be enough time to crush the remainder of your opponents' forces.

That's exactly the idea!

We have a bunch of "is unit A better then unit B?" posts, but I wonder if we would be better served thinking about "How can I use unit A to make unit B work better?"

 

[Sleboda]

Keep in mind as we discuss options that cold one cavalry cannot flee as a charge reaction.

 

[T_Saurus]

Keep in mind as we discuss options that cold one cavalry cannot flee as a charge reaction.

Was about to make the same posts.

On the other hand we could discuss the virtues of stupidity! Never falling back due to failed terror tests, never failing fear tests!

 

[Pinktaco]

One of the Dark Elf players here runs his Cold Ones in a single rank with 8 models (I believe). He puts it off on one of his flanks and basically uses it as a big wall that you either have to manuver around, break, or be funneled into his fighty units on the other side


[-------Cold Ones-------] [Fighty Stuff] [More Fighty Stuff]


I wonder if something like that would work for us. Just use them to shrink the board and force your opponent to go into our Saurus blocks.

If we want to go full retard one option is: 7 CORs with spear, scar vet with spear, LA, shield, BSB and skavenpelt banner. It would make the unit quite expensive (nearly 500pts), but it would be sporting a total of 51 attacks (with champion), 27 of those at S5.

It sounds incredible stupid, so im going to try it out some time ._.

 

[Sleboda]

Can I just say how glad I am that this forum is not full-on PC. I think we all know that Pinktaco was making a movie reference and not insulting mentally challenged people, and he was allowed to make his comment without the usual "Hey, that's mean" sort of BS.

Well done, Lustria-Online, well done.



As to the actual content of the post - Skavenpelt Banner? I think I need to look that one up. 51 Attacks you say....

 

[hdctambien]

7 CORs with spear, scar vet with spear, LA, shield, BSB and skavenpelt banner. It would make the unit quite expensive (nearly 500pts), but it would be sporting a total of 51 attacks (with champion), 27 of those at S5.

Of course this unit would also have an Old Blood sporting the Fencers Blades (or Sword of Bloodshed?!)

 

[Mr Phat]

As to the actual content of the post - Skavenpelt Banner? I think I need to look that one up. 51 Attacks you say....

last book it was "skink cheif only" and we laughed and laughed then cried and howled "WHY!?" to the heavens.


now its not skink only, it can go where it belongs: on a Saurus.

Incoming speculation / prophetic ramble:
It is the sole reason that CoR cant take magic banners on their bearer..I am sure.
And when they realized that it was ALSO too powerful on a Temple-guard block they bombed its cost up to 65pts so it legally couldn't go on the Templeguard Standard Bearer
(I tried this by mistake forgetting the 50pts limit, royally stomping a maxed out white lion unit in an ETC where each unit cant go above 450pts......)

.....but...after taking my dream unit away from me, they forgot to give back the option to the CoR, neglecting to realize that the Banner was now also off limits to them!

...anyway...back to subject.

I am NOT a fan of a BSB with a magic standard without any other protection, its too much of a gamble to me.

with a CoR all out rider unit you COULD do the trick with full command and filling the front row with other characters so the bsb would have to go to second rank.

(the first to get the brilliant idea to put it on the slann in this context will be forced to dive in the toilet swamp )

 

[Pinktaco]

Yeah that is sort of the issue here. The BSB might just end up dying before the rest of the units gets to strike

 

[Sleboda]

I've looked it up now. I don't see the fascination. After seeing that all it does is give Frenzy (because the Hatred thing is vs one army only), I know why it stays of my radar.

It's too many points. It should be 25 or so and and also not be limited to only two units in the book (BSB and TG).

I think I'll (continue to) pass.

 

[Mr Phat]

It's too many points. It should be 25 or so and and also not be limited to only two units in the book (BSB and TG).

just one, TG's cant take it. max of 50pts -.-

 

[Pinktaco]

If this was a 45pts item I'd definitely take it some more in a TG horde. We can control frenzy, no worries and 3 attack from each guard is awesome. Currently thought it requires the slann and that would make a horde quite expensive..

 

[GCPD]

I don't think that its necessarily a bad banner. An additional attack is huge for Saurus because their WS and Initiative is so poor. More attacks basically make up for this weakness, in much the same way that lots of people ran Light Slann in previous editions. 65 is maybe a bit pricey compared to some other 50+ banners out there (Banner of the World Dragon, anyone?) but its still pretty good - if I wasn't looking to fit an Oldblood in alongside a Slann, then I'd take it for sure. Consider also that its still relatively easy to get a 1+ armour save on a Scar-Vet without the use of any magic equipment.

Back to the original topic, I see a lot of people mention the use of Cold Ones as Scar-Vet delivery systems. I've recently decided to join the Scar-Vet bandwagon and fill my list with as many cowboys as possible. So, how does the delivery system work? Presumably you definitely want a Musician for the free reforms, and a Champion to accept bad challenges. What about a Standard, too? Its only 10 points, gets your Fortitude up, and gives you that extra +1 CR. But then what about numbers? Is 5 enough, or is 6 better? If you're just looking for bodies to soak up wounds, should you stick to the bare minimum naked?

Personally, I'm looking at 6 with full command. Its pricey (some 210 points... ugh), but dropping just one Scar-Vet in makes it a dangerous flanking force; two, and its a real force to be reckoned with.