8th Ed. How would you rank the Warhammer armies in terms of technological prowess? (tier list included!)

[NIGHTBRINGER]

The Snotling Pump Wagon and Goblin Doom Driver represent innovations you don't see the other races approach.

I think other races refrain from Doom Divers not as a result of a lack of technological knowledge, but rather that they aren't as suicidal as the Gobbos! I think it is an O&G innovation purely because nobody else is crazy enough to do it.

The pump wagon is a consideration. A crude chariot, but it is rather unique within the Warhammer setting so it does deserve some credit.

I think the Orcs and Goblins should be C-tier. Their stuff is crude, but it gets the job done and they can manufacture it quickly and easily.

To be fair, I could picture them in E-tier on my list. I could never put them above an army like the Tomb Kings though. The Tomb Kings built pyramids and giant statues of exquisite beauty & refinement. The TK had complex cities, while the O&G live in crude shanty towns.

There is no way that the O&G could ever even come close to approaching that level of technological sophistication.

Additionally, (and the the reason why I have the TK above the Lizardmen), I agree with the point on quality made by @Killer Angel :

Superior craftmanship.
Tomb Kings and Liche Priests have always carried weapons and artefacts of exquisite quality and artifice, their jewelry is top notch and the craft skills of the necrotects are probably the highest in the "human" race.

I think TK equipment is more refined than that of the Lizards. Their pyramids are also more impressive in my opinion (discounting the End Times Old Ones spaceship tech of course!). Then there is the fact that they have exquisite chariots and statues.

I think Dark Elves should slightly edge out High Elves but remain in the same tier.

I would switch Dark Elves and High Elves , as they've been able to create Repeater Crossbows which is an advancement over their benign kin. Otherwise, the ranking is as I would rank them.

Those two are extremely close to each other. Essentially a coin toss. I had put the High Elves higher purely because of their Lothern Skycutter chariots:



I didn't think of repeater crossbows, but I'd probably still put a flying chariot above it. That said, I wouldn't put up much of an argument if someone felt the Dark Elves edged out the High Elves. The differences between the two races are pretty minimal.

I think Ogre Kingdoms should be in D-tier, Beastmen should occupy F-tier alone

They are certainly more sophisticated than the Beastmen!

-I think Wood Elves should be the bottom of C-tier.

I can see that. They are right on the border in my list, but like the VC, they don't actually produce all that much. They should have the capability, but because they choose not to employ it, it's hard to give them credit for it. Realistically we only see them produce bows (which are the best in their class) and some magic items. Next to no armour or any construction of buildings.

and you clearly had fun doing it

Admittedly... yes.

Hope you guys enjoyed the discussion as well.

For the most part we agree on the broad strokes. Just small differences in how we value certain aspects of technology, but that's what makes it fun. All of this is pretty open to interpretation.

 

[Scalenex]

Those two are extremely close to each other. Essentially a coin toss. I had put the High Elves higher purely because of their Lothern Skycutter chariots:

Reasonable, but I give the Dark Elves credit for their floating black arc fortresses that are faster than most conventional ships.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Reasonable, but I give the Dark Elves credit for their floating black arc fortresses that are faster than most conventional ships.

Also a good point. Similarly, we should give High Elves credit for their Ithilmar barding and Dragon Armour.

 

[Scalenex]

Also a good point. Similarly, we should give High Elves credit for their Ithilmar barding and Dragon Armour.

Okay, but nigh invincible mobile castles beat fancy barding.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Okay, but nigh invincible mobile castles beat fancy barding.

But do the Dark Elves have a superior naval force to the High Elves? To be honest, I really don't know much about the naval forces of any of the Warhammer races. I've looked at a couple of forums, and people argue back and forth, but I can't really find anything definitive beyond opinions.

https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/256584/what-are-the-best-naval-races-in-warhammer

https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com...f Navy is the finest fleet in the Known World.




I finally found a reference with a bit more authority:

"Uthuan can still muster the mightiest fleet in the Known World and its armies are rightly feared by its foes..." (7th ed. High Elves army book, page 30)

While the passage continues by stating that the High Elves are a shadow of their former glory, according to this source they are still the strongest naval power.


That doesn't mean that any of their individual ships are stronger than the Black Arcs of the Dark Elves, but overall they are superior in totality (at least according to this admittedly old source). What this means in terms of naval technological superiority is tough to say. I wouldn't go as far as to say that the High Elves have better naval tech (they could simply have a huge numbers advantage or superior strategy/maneuvers, etc.), but it does call into question the argument that we place the Dark Elves above the High Elves on the technology ladder due to their naval creations.

 

[Warden]

I have two more cents to add! I went about this by looking at what each civ is supposed to represent in game according to mostly their historical counterparts. I think magic helps balance most of these out in the end, and because of the setting everybody gets stuck in a balance-of-power because of how the setting worked.

S-Tier

• ***Daemons- technically have as much tech as mortals can imagine
• Chaos Dwarfs- Industrialized City-States
• Dwarfs- Proto-Industrialized City States
• Skaven- Insane-Industrialized level of tech

Spoiler: S-Tier

S-Tier stands for 'Surprise'- Daemons win. But they are cheating because the Daemons are reflections of all the being of the world, and therefore can have as much or as little tech as the beings that inhabit the world.

The most industrialized nations are the Chaos Dwarfs, Dwarfs, and Skaven. The Chaos Dwarfs are steampunk-Near-Eastern Persians, Dwarfs are a bit lesser on the spectrum with a steampunk-ish version of Tolkien dwarfs, plus air support.

Skaven are a bit weird, but they are a heavy extreme of the Empire's tech and have the potential to edge everybody else out if they could stop eating each other in the rat race.

A-Tier

• Empire- Renaissance level of tech

Spoiler: A-Tier

They got most of their tech ideas from the Dwarfs, so dont get as high.

B-Tier

• High Elves- Medieval tech, but tons of magic tech too
• Dark Elves- Medieval tech, but tons of magic tech too
• Bretonnia- Steel Tech, Medieval tech
• Vampire Counts- access to Renaissance tech, but extremely underutilized in warfare

Spoiler: B-Tier

Step down from Renaissance tech.

The Elves could probably go one tier higher but magic is hard to balance.

I took Vampires down a peg though; they have renaissance tech because they live in the empire, but don't use it for warfare.

C-Tier

• Norse/Chaos Warriors- Iron Age tech, lots of magic
• Wood Elves- Bronze/Iron Age tech, tons of magic
• Tomb Kings- Bronze Age tech

Spoiler: C-Tier

Step down from Medieval, now we are looking at the era before steel.

I dont know enough about Chaos Warriors to adequately place them, so I will ignore it in the favor of the Norse.

Also Wood Elves are very non-tech focused, but have a lot leftover from when they used to live with the rest of the elves.

Tomb Kings like Ancient Egypt have the ability to do basic metalworking and bronze working... but since they are undead do they just use leftover weapons that were grave goods and not make new stuff anymore? Regardless I am putting them here.

D-Tier

• Orcs- crude Iron-Age/Stone Age tech
• Ogres- crude Iron Age/Stone Age tech, but also heavy scavengers
• Lizardmen- Stone Age tech, but tons of magic tech

Spoiler: D-Tier

Now we are reaching stone-age levels of tech.

The Orcs and Goblins have crude iron-smelting tech, but it is very very crude. The Gnoblars of the Ogre Kingdoms fill a similar role for them, but the Ogres also steal stuff like cannons to use for guns. I would still place them here.

Lizardmen are hard to place too! I would have thought to place them higher, but as they are based on Mesoamerican cultures, who never had much metalworking tech except for rudimentary gold crafting, I hesitate to place them higher. As with others of course, magic gives them a huge edge, but we are focused on tech.

F-Tier

• Beastmen- Neolithic level of tech, scavengers

Spoiler: F-Tier

Edging out the Lizardmen for the lowest level of tech is the Beastmen. I highly doubt there are any Beastmen blacksmiths out there, and any metal weapons they have are stolen based on how they are depicted in the lore. They seem to be depicted even lower on the tech level order than Germanic or other Barbarian tribes who were assailing the Roman empire, in my mind they fill the role of Neolithic peoples in level of tech.

That being said, whenever chaos has a vote they could easily find themselves at a different spot on the totem pole, but they have nowhere near the easy access as the Daemons or Warriors do.

Plus, their whole thing is they hate technology. The perfect Luddites!