8th Ed. Lizardnewbie needs help

So together with your advices i tried to create an army list. There are in total 1.500 Points.

Saurus Oldblood:
->GW, Glittering Scales, Talisman of Preservation, Cold One.
-> 1+ Armour Save, 4+ Ward Save
= 246 Points

Saurus Scar-Veteran (BSB - never leave without one)
->Light Armour, Shield, Banner of Swiftness
= 130 Points

Skink Priest: (Lvl 2 - Lore of Heavens)
-> Scroll of Shielding, Ironcurse Icon
= 120 Points

Chameleon Skins x 10 = 130 Points

Cold One Riders x 5 = 180 Points

Ancient Stegadon with Blowpipes (+sharpened Horns, Unstoppable stampede) = 260 Points

Core Units:
24x Saurus Warriors (FC) = 294 Points
2x10x Skink Skirmishers (javelins and shield) = 140 Points

The BSB will get inside of the Saurus Warriors.
The Old Blood inside the Cold one Riders.

Don't know where to put the Skink-Priest.
I would love to have him on top of the stegadon because of the ironcurse icon. But this is only possible with EOTG.
I also thought taking Tetto'eko instead of the skink-priest. But then i remembered that i really need a battel standard bearer^^.

I am really interested of what you think of this list

 

First thought is make your Chamo Skinks into two units of 5. Makes it easier to deal with multiple problems.

I’ll have more of a think later.

 

Hi there! Glad you gave some complete loadouts, there are simply more efficient builds if you ask me if you want to build a character, so it is good that you shared it.

My favorite two setups for Saurus Scar Veterans are as follows, we call these boys the Cowboys and they are generally accepted as the best and most cheese thing we can put on the table.

Saurus Scar Veteran on a Cold One with a Great Weapon, with the Armor of Destiny. (possible as BSB or general).

Saurus Scar Veteran on a Cold One with a Great Weapon, with the Gamblers Armor, the Dawnstone (possible as BSB as well).

When looking at Cowboys, do not take Magic Weapons. Great Weapons are so great on them. Their initiative is shit anyway, so Always Strike Last is not a real issue, and a Strength of 7 for the bargain price of 4 points is just so much more efficient than whatever the Magic Weapon slot can give you. S7 means you ignore basically every armor save and that you wound on 2's, this is great. A Cold one combined with the 5+ scaly skin save plus Heavy Armor (which is why you want magical armor always, we cannot natively get heavy armor) nets you a 1+ save. These builds give you either a 1+ armor save with a 4+ ward save, or a 1+ armor save that you get to reroll plus a 6+ ward save. They are tough as nails, and especially with Predatory Fighter and a Great Weapon, they hit like a truck. Old Bloods are ok, but they are not worth the investment. You are paying around 70 points more for an extra wound and an extra attack.. just stick with Scar Vets instead. These guys are so tough that you can run them solo across the board! As long as you can hide them from Bolt Throwers and Cannons (which should be doable, they have small bases), they can just run solo and crash the party of enemy chaff or sometimes even weaker monsters alike! Having a BSB on foot is fine as well, do be sure to give him Magical Heavy Armor as well instead of a shitty Magic Weapon. Also on foot, always give him a Great Weapon.

Your priest is fine. I would drop the Scroll of Shielding, you won't often need it, points are better invested elsewhere. I personally prefer Lore of Beasts because of the extremely strong Signature Spell (Wyssans Wildform), but Heavens can be fine as well. I would only take a Slann from 2000 points and bigger, and i would then also run a unit of Temple Guard as well of course. Put your Skink Priest in a unit of Skink Skirmishers that you keep at the back, basically as his bodyguard. Putting them on Stegadons is generally sadly a bad idea, as that makes them an ever more delicious target for enemy Cannons.

That brings me to the next unit, drop the Cold One Knights if you can. Cold One Knights are not efficient, Heavy Cav is not that good in 8th as Steadfast makes it so that they probably won't be able to crash through enemy units at all if they have too many ranks, and they lack the staying power for prolonged fights.

Chameleon Skinks are ok, run them in units off 5 indeed as @Lizards of Renown said, and use them to hunt enemy war machines or monsters. If you do not have 2-3 monsters though, i would not say they are worth it.

When taking Saurus Warriors, i do not like taking a Champion. It costs 10 points, and you get only 1 extra attack. For 11 points you have a full additional Saurus Warrior, with 2 extra attacks, a wound, counting for ranks, etc. It is not even that good to protect your guys from challenges, as a good opponent will just make it so his and yours character are in base contact when he charges you. He does then not even have to challenge you to attack your character, so even then, your champion will be useless and less good than just one additional guy for 1 additional point. Maybe make this unit even bigger, i like running them in squads of 30, with hand weapon shield.

Skink Skirmishers are great! Get more! I run 80 of the buggers in 2400 points, and they never failed me. When using them, exploit to the fullest that an enemy cannot charge them if the skinks are not in their forward arch. Run around them, shoot at units that dislike being poisoned, and keep moving out of their line of sight!

For what your army lacks, i would either go big on monsters or go big on infantry. both supported by a lot of Skinks. Running only 1 monster is sort off where you exactly do not want to be. One monster gives your opponent the perfect target for their cannons. If you have 3 monsters, at least 1 or maybe 2 of your monsters will reach the enemy lines before they are shot with Cannons, so that is at least ok. If you have 0 monsters, you deny your opponent a good target with their Cannons, so that is also a good idea. With just the 1 monster, it is always awkward. So, either take at least 2 or preferably 3, or 0 is my advice.

Finally, especially if you do not take monsters, taking a few Salamanders is very good to thin out enemy infantry. They are a bargain for 84 points (always take an extra handler, to make it so when you misfire you always have at least 1 handler left), one shot often makes it so they make their points back. Running a few of them in units of 1-2 is very strong. Also do not forget they can move and fire, and with their movement of 6, they are quite flexible. Ripperdactyls are also strong if you want something strong against enemy light infantry units (chaff).

 

Great additions. Couple of comments I'd like to make.

I prefer 3 wounds to 2 wounds, but that's a personal preference.

The concept of the COR are a bus to protect the SV or OB from hits while they get close. Especially in a shooting heavy line-up like he's going to face I'd say it was a good all-comers investement. Last thing you need is him being cannon-balled on turn one and losing out on that close-combat frenzy.

Given that all of his opponents are going to have cannons or major war machines (even OK's and Daemons have them!) I'd say it's a good investment.

Not sure about your experience, but in mine the Rippers get nobbled as with I3 and very little defensive load-out they tend to die out majorly in most combats.

 

Fair enough! 70 points is expensive though.. a Scar Vet base is only 80.

I can see that! In my experience you just do not need it, as a Scar Vet is easily hidden. It does matter how much terrain you use though, and how much woods or buildings you run. It also really depends on what shooting your opponent had, arrows and crossbows bounce off no problem, but bolt throwers are an issue of course.

I have found them very match-up specifically reliant. Against some units they are great, on some they are not.

 

Wow Thank you a lot guys!! A lot to read and to modify .
They are a lot of Good advices . Realy think from now on my Game will Change and i will hopefully win some matches

 

Great! I'm sure @airjamy and I would both love to see some pictures from your battle.

You can post them here or do a whole battle report in the battle reports subforum.

 

Yeah, just the number of armies he'll be going up against with the old "lazer targetting" cannons makes me blink a bit. I'd rather he had a bit of protection.

True. Against O&G or other low Iniative armies. I don't see them being viable in an all-comers list (which is what he'll be using it in.)

Appreciate all your contributions to his army list, matey!

 

Hey guys. So the tournament is in 2 weeks and we changed it to 2.000 points.

i made a List and i would really appreciate your opinons of maybe changes.

Im total i am at 1.999 points.

1x Oldblood: GW, glittering scales, talisman of preservation, Cold one

1x Scar Veteran: Battle Standard Bearer, Armour of Destiny, GW

1x Tetto‘eko

19x Saurus Warrios: FC

4x10x Skink Skirmishers: Javelin and Shield

2x5x chamelon skinks

3x Kroxigor

3x Ripperdactyl Riders

1xAncient Stegadon: Blow Pipes and sharped horns

3xSalamander hunting pack (as one Unit)


What are your thoughts about it?

 

Invest in a Slann instead of Tetto and the Scar Vet.

I'd probably invest in a bus for your OB as well.

Personally, I've never been a fan of the Rippers due to their low initiative most of the time they are just going to get slaughtered due to striking second, low toughness and low armour.

I think get two blocks of 25 Saurus and a Slann instead. Then you can also mix and match as you need on the magic side of things. Although I would play the High Magic loremaster or all 8 signatures spells of the battle magics though personally.

 

so you mean two blocks of saurus warriors? No temple guard for the Slaan then?

 

Keep the Temple Guard. I was just thinking offhand what I might invest the points in.

How much is your Core Tax with the 4 Skirmisher Units and the one block of Saurus?

What armies are going to be coming at you in the competition?

 

The Players so far will be demons, ogers, wood elves, dwarves, imperial or bretons and my lizards.

i already deleted the list again. I am always unhappy with something.
really dont know how to Build a strong 2K list. Its kinda frustriating. I Never won a single match and i want to change this.
I have 1 week left to the Tournament

 

Wow. That's quite a varied number of enemies with a bunch of different play styles.

Your list isn't bad, it just needs some tweaking.

To be honest, I'd change Ripperdons to another 5 Chamo Skinks. That's gonna help you with Wood Elves, Dwarves and Imperial. They will all want to sit back and pound you, so you use the Skirmishers to distract, and use your Chamo Skinks to deploy near the war machines and cause havoc, while moving up your Saurus blocks.

Use a Skink Priest with Cloak of Feathers as a back-up to get close enough to use a Slann spell to nuke the war machines.

Daemons and Ogors will come to you. They have shit armour so take out any cannons they have quickly and then kill as much of them as possible while they charge. Use your Stegadon and TG for a counter charge and position the Saurus so they have to charge them.

Have you taken a look in the tactica sections of the 8th Edition subforum for advice? They have fantastic army-specific advice for Lizardmen.

 

Ok i will try to modify the list and then Post ist again here.
But maybe you could help me with two questions.
One is the shooting attack from the troglodon.
Does it affect the whole enemy unit or is just one damn hit? And i have to Roll it with the BS Right?

the other question is about riden monsters. For example skink chief on a ancient stegadon. I know that shooting attacks have to be rolled if the stegadon or the chief gets hitted.
But how about Cannons? Is the whole model including the rider affected? Does Magic items like the dragonbane Gem also affect the stegadon?
Thanks for your help

 

So i changed the list. Please your opinions.

Slaan- High Magic
BSB - Skavenfell Banner
Focus of Mystery, Iron Curse Icon

Scar-Vet:
GW, Armour of Destiny

Skink Priest (lvl1) - lore of beasts
Cloak of feathers

18x Saurus Warriors- FC

4x10x skink Skirmishers

2x5x chameleon skinks

18x temple guard - FC

1xAncient stegadon: Blowpipes, sharpened horns

1x2 salamander hunting pack w. Extra handlers


what do you think?

 

Cool!

Sure.

One damn hit

Both are hit unfortunately. Take a look at the section in the BRB on cannons. Cannons in 8th edition are mental.

No, as the Stegadon has no flaming attacks. Dragonbane Gem only gives a 2+ ward save against flaming attacks.

Sure!

 

Pretty good.

The Skavenpelt Banner gives Frenzy but only until you lose ONE combat. It's not really worth the points unfortunately as (unlike for instance the Carnosaur's rule) it doesn't say that you never lose Frenzy. Points best spent on something else.

How much have you spent on Core?

 

First thank you a lot to your reply .

To the dragon bane gem.
My intension was, that the stegadon is the mount of a chief. And that the chief wears dragon bane gem. If the model gets Hit by a scull canon (Flame attacks), does the 2+ ward save apply only to the chief or the complete model including the stegadon?

but because cannons are insanse, both get Hit invidualy and only the chief will get the 2+ ward save.

To your question.
I spent 508 points in Core.

What would you take instead of the skvenfell Banner?

 

Becalming Cogitation, Harmonic Convergence and Banner of Swiftness (in that order depending on the number of points available),