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AoS NEW *rumor*

King Dust said:
I mean yeah, the probability you take him out with chip damage is very low, but the expected value in terms of points removed per wounds of offensive potential spent is not much different from what you'd get for taking out a few Saurus warriors with those wounds instead. So the question just becomes, are you feeling lucky? Which I maintain is an interesting decision.
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Nope, not unless you start attaching convoluted and arbitrry weights to your value function because Kroak is more "important"

Expected point value removed from the board when dealing two damage to Kroak is about 2
Expected point value removed from the board when dealing 2 damage to the saurus warriors is 18.

And kroak will be more likely to be protected with look out sir etc. so the expected value of any given attack against him is probably going to be even lower in practise.

It starts to become in favour towards Kroak as you deal more damage though. At 18 damage the expected value against Kroak is 430 while against the saurus it'l be 162.

King Dust said:
This is a fair point, he's generally going to be worse at all of those things than other parts of your army, sometimes this added flexibility could be handy in a pinch, but for the most part you're right.
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Even in a pinch it rather sucks. Especially as in most situations where he can risk a fight azerite force barrier just doesn't work. He's too valuable to charge into 20+ enemies, but that's the only moment during which he's actually a decent combatant...

King Dust said:
These are good suggestions, but they don't magically fix all of the problems without introducing new ones. Which is why rule-crafting is such an art, there are always trade-offs.
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It'd fix the issues with this rule :p
I don't think it'd introduce any real new problems, though getting the exact numbers right is obviously tricky. I used a 25+ for dead for innumerable ages in ,my example but maybe 30+ is better, or maybe 22+. That requires some testing.

Still leaves say the issues with him spamming mortal wounds on everything and everyone using his spells though, but that's a seperate issue :p

ArtoriusaurusRex said:
Maaaaybe. Now that I've cooled down a bit, I tend to think a big gorgeous model update is never truly a waste, everything changes every few years anyway.
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Sure, the model is gorgeous. But it still stings.

Also, why are there no new, or at least restyled, rules tying back to the new model? There's a new attendent, some floating rocks, and two new relics. If nothing else just rename some of his abilities to reference these new things...
 
Skaven getting some cool rule updates (my best friend is a Skaven player).

Can hide weapons teams in units of clan rats (and I think maybe storm vermin) 1 team per 10 rats in the unit. They pop out at the start of the spring phase.

Mutations for the Hell Pit Abomination and rat ogors (1 unit per army can take it) and honostly they all look pretty good.

And I guess we still don't get mount traits. :(
 
xoid said:
Skaven getting some cool rule updates (my best friend is a Skaven player).
Can hide weapons teams in units of clan rats (and I think maybe storm vermin) 1 team per 10 rats in the unit. They pop out at the start of the spring phase.
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Are they part of the unit and thus protected from damage until the clanrats all die or do they hide like goblin fanatics hide?
 
Hide like fanatics I believe, as the player has to write down where they are at the start of the game.
 
Canas said:
Expected point value removed from the board when dealing two damage to Kroak is about 2
Expected point value removed from the board when dealing 2 damage to the saurus warriors is 18.
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Yeah, I was talking about the 3-4 wound range, where you get about 21 pts for kroak vs 27 for saurus and at 4 wounds kroak starts to become the better deal for your wounds with ~38 pts vs 36 I think.

I guess I'm saying the math trade-offs are complicated and interesting enough that you could justify either decision, and that's what leads to interesting gameplay.

Canas said:
I don't think it'd introduce any real new problems, though getting the exact numbers right is obviously tricky. I used a 25+ for dead for innumerable ages in ,my example but maybe 30+ is better, or maybe 22+. That requires some testing.
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I wasn't going to hold the 25+ number against you because as you say you'd need to test and tweak. I more meant examples like the following. By eliminating the phase rule you're now effectively nerfing armies that are strong in a single phase, and buffing armies that are good in multiple phases. Not that this makes your rule unbalanced, just different. Hence trade-offs.

In any case, it seems like our analyses of the rule are not too far off from each other. So at this point our differing takeaways are probably just matters of opinion. Thanks for addressing my points in good faith, love that this community is so respectful. :)
 
King Dust said:
I don't think I see your point. Is it that since Kroak is such an expensive inclusion in your army he shouldn't be so vulnerable? On average I think he's actually much sturdier than most models in his points range since he'll absorb 16-20 wounds a game even if your enemy targets him efficiently. Or am I misunderstanding?
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No, that's what I meant. Average durability doesn't really mean much when it's not that hard to force rolls in the 10-20% ballpark each turn. Let's not forget that both damage output of ranged armies and speed of melee armies (or any combination thereof) are off the f*cking chain recently (Tzeentch, KO, Lumineth). The risk is just insane considering the point cost.
 
Erta Wanderer said:
hobgoblins confirmed. now known as the crule boi orks
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/05/29/warhammer-preview-online-unboxing-dominion/
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That box looks good, quite a lot of models. Shame it's probably going to be sold out in 0.001ms, mostly to scalpers....

Not sure about the hobgoblins though. They're the "sneaky" but isn't that supposed to be the goblin's spiel already?

Sidenote, is that SCE carrying a space marine chaplain's crozius arcanum? It seems awefully similar.
 
so we now know there are reactive comand abilities
and endless spells go off in both turns
 
Did they say when in June 3rd Ed comes out? My FLGS is starting an Escalation League June 6, so wondering if this is also going to be a learn the new edition league.
 
xoid said:
Did they say when in June 3rd Ed comes out? My FLGS is starting an Escalation League June 6, so wondering if this is also going to be a learn the new edition league.
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no they left the exact date vague. probably 3rd or 4th week
 
Canas said:
meh.. makes me wonder how relevant the newest tomes are.. either there's going to be a lot of updates in the GHB again or it's going to be super generic stuff.
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probably just points and something for narrative that no one will ever use
 
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