Poll: What are the odds of GW re-releasing the Tomb Kings?

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Yeah. Warhammer was getting the axe, I did NOT like how End Times turned out for them, and then I was in a nasty car accident with my wife and to cover our bills I had to sell off a lot of my Warhammer and Warmahordes stuff.

Hope you both are OK now. Sad to hear about all those minis being sold - could you have sold another army other than TK or Lizardmen?

I'm a huge fan of ancient Egypt, and Tomb Kings were a natural fit for me. I ran a combined arms attachment of Beastmen using Wargods of Aegyptus models.

I didn't like how the End Times turned out for anyone.


Yikes. Sorry to hear that. Hopefully you both made a full recovery.



Sounds awesome. Maybe one day you can recreate the army again. I've always loved the aesthetics of Tomb Kings. I finally got around to picking up an army. Too bad they are one of the weaker armies (in 8th edition Fantasy). Either way, they should be fun to play!

TK aren't that weak - they beat the High Elves in a White Dwarf battle report ages ago, and I maintain they are better than Vampire Counts and Empire. In fact all other armies are better than Vampire Counts and Empire.

I liked the Skaven ending but I hate how they let Archaon and the Warriors of Chaos win overall. Also I dislike how they bumped off Thorgrim just as he had won the battle - they should have kept him alive so that he could behead Archaon at the end with the axe of Grimnir. At least they should have got Grimgor to kill Archaon because he was wiping the floor with him. Although I did like how they slaughtered the Empire and the supposed 'Chosen of Sigmar' was decapitated by a Verminlord Corruptor.

My version of the End Times would have been that the Empire dies first through massed Chaos and Skaven attacks, the Skaven try to get to Lustria but the Lizardmen hold out, the Dwarfs retake Karak Eight Peaks for good, the Greenskins launch a massive horde against Chaos and take a lot of the northern regions and Bretonnia and all the Elves join forces with the Dwarfs to finally wipe out the last of the Warriors and Daemons of Chaos. Nagash tries to assimilate the Tomb Kings with the Vampire Counts but Settra decapitates him and the Vampires are turned to dust. The Skaven retreat back underground but are imprisoned by Dwarf miners when they collapse all the tunnels out of Skavenblight and the proper factions win. The End!

Same for Bretonnia! Ridiciously high prices at Ebay. 120€ for a box that cost 50€ before GW discontinued the army.

I still maintain that Bretonnia had the better looking miniatures - the Empire ones GW favoured so much looked really ugly I feel, especially the State Troops - while the Bretonnian Men-at-Arms had faces like ordinary blokes, the Empire State Troops have really gaunt ugly faces that look horrible I feel. I also prefer the traditional medieval feel of Bretonnia to the skull-ridden Gothic look of the Empire.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

TK aren't that weak - they beat the High Elves in a White Dwarf battle report ages ago, and I maintain they are better than Vampire Counts and Empire

I disagree. High Elves for instance are FAR more powerful than TK. Winning a singular battle report (especially one from the white dwarf which are questionable at best) doesn't give us much insight into the overall power of an army. High Elves are probably one of the strongest armies in the game.

Vampire Counts in my opinion are much stronger than TK. The Blender Lord, Terrorgheist, ethereal units, raising new units and the ability to march when within range of the general give VC a significant advantage.

I've never considered Empire to be a weak army. They may not be top tier but they are very capable of fielding powerful armies. They have some great warmachines and can field an impressive gunline. The steam tank and demigryph knights are also top notch.

In fact all other armies are better than Vampire Counts and Empire.

Beastmen and Bretonnia would disagree.

 

[Killer Angel]

I disagree. High Elves for instance are FAR more powerful than TK.

Pretty much.
TK required high skills and solid experience to work properly.
Dark Elves and High Elves, Empire, VC... the number of more powerful armies is not small. Even Lizardmen, and also Ogre Kingdom.

 

[Aginor]

Ok I don't know why but I just read "High Elvis" Looool

 

[pendrake]

An entire High Elf Army painted as Elvis impersonators... ...ranks right up there with the Hello Kitty Space Marines chapter.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

An entire High Elf Army painted as Elvis impersonators...

With blue suede shoes?

 

[pendrake]

With blue suede shoes?

...and every musician wielding a guitar.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

...and every musician wielding a guitar.

This would be such an epic and funny army.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

I disagree. High Elves for instance are FAR more powerful than TK. Winning a singular battle report (especially one from the white dwarf which are questionable at best) doesn't give us much insight into the overall power of an army. High Elves are probably one of the strongest armies in the game.

There I agree - High Elves are strong.

Vampire Counts in my opinion are much stronger than TK. The Blender Lord, Terrorgheist, ethereal units, raising new units and the ability to march when within range of the general give VC a significant advantage.

Firstly, Tomb Kings can raise units too. Second, VC are all eggs in one basket - a well placed cannon shot can insta-kill the general and basically lose the game for VC, whereas TK can just have loads of Liche Priests scattered all over the place. Also their monsters are not nearly as tough or as well-armoured as Tomb Kings monsters. VC are no threat to me. If they were, then they would be overpowered for what they are - feeble Vampire filth - and should be made poorer.

I've never considered Empire to be a weak army. They may not be top tier but they are very capable of fielding powerful armies. They have some great warmachines and can field an impressive gunline. The steam tank and demigryph knights are also top notch.

Dwarf artillery is better. End of story. Umgi (Human) artillery is umgak (Shoddy) to use the Dwarf language. If you think Empire has a good gunline, you haven't seen a Dwarf gunline. After all, at least the Dwarf minis don't have ugly faces. Empire is always an easy win for a Dwarf player - trust me, I've played and won against them a lot.

Demigryph Knights are nothing compared to other monstrous cavalry - Mournfangs, Bloodcrushers, Necropolis Knights - and a Steam Tank is easily killed by a Dwarf cannon shot or a Bastiladon's solar engine.

Beastmen and Bretonnia would disagree.

Only because GW didn't give them 8th Ed books. Give Bretonnia an 8th Ed book and I'm confident it would demolish the Empire with cavalry charges aplenty.

Pretty much.
TK required high skills and solid experience to work properly.
Dark Elves and High Elves, Empire, VC... the number of more powerful armies is not small. Even Lizardmen, and also Ogre Kingdom.

You missed out Dwarfs and Warriors of Chaos (OK, I do say WoC are OP but I advocate them over Vampire Counts) and forgot to remove Empire and Vampire Counts.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Firstly, Tomb Kings can raise units too

Tomb Kings can heal units, but they can not raise new units like VC can. That is a pretty substantial difference. Also, VC are better at healing units as well.

Second, VC are all eggs in one basket - a well placed cannon shot can insta-kill the general and basically lose the game for VC, whereas TK can just have loads of Liche Priests scattered all over the place.

I actually think the reverse is true. In the case of the VC, if you kill the general, they can halt the crumble tests if there is another Wizard with the lore of Vampires present on the batttlefield. If you kill the TK hierophant, then the army continues to take crumble tests until the end of the game.

Also their monsters are not nearly as tough or as well-armoured as Tomb Kings monsters.

Your point on monster toughness is valid. The sphinxes are the toughest monsters in the game. Unfortunately, their T8 does nothing to protect them from cannon fire.

In terms of armour, neither TK nor VC monsters have any sort of significant armour save.

The terrorgheist is still much scarier on the field than TK monsters. Those screams are nasty.

Dwarf artillery is better. End of story. Umgi (Human) artillery is umgak (Shoddy) to use the Dwarf language. If you think Empire has a good gunline, you haven't seen a Dwarf gunline. After all, at least the Dwarf minis don't have ugly faces. Empire is always an easy win for a Dwarf player - trust me, I've played and won against them a lot.

Dwarf artillery is the best in the game, but that doesn't mean that Empire can't field a very potent gun line. After dwarfs (and perhaps Chaos Dwarfs), they are about as good or better than anybody else when it comes to the creation of a gun line.

Demigryph Knights are nothing compared to other monstrous cavalry - Mournfangs, Bloodcrushers, Necropolis Knights

Demigryph knights are a lot better than what you give them credit for. They are far superior to Necropolis Knights because they have that very sought after 1+ armour save. I would even give Demigryphs the advantage over the Bloodcrushers.

Mournfang are awesome, as they can pump out a huge amount of damage. Demigryphs may not be as good, but they are at least very close. I would say that Skullcrushers are the most potent of all the monstrous cavalry (as long as your opponent is prevented from taking advantage of their frenzy).

and a Steam Tank is easily killed by a Dwarf cannon shot or a Bastiladon's solar engine.

Cannons are definitely the hard counter to the Steam Tank, but that doesn't mean that the Steam Tank is not a fantastic choice in an Empire army (just not against cannons). Everything in the game has a hard counter.

As far as the Bastilodon goes, he doesn't stand a chance against the Steam Tank. That is really no contest at all.

Beastmen and Bretonnia would disagree.

Only because GW didn't give them 8th Ed books. Give Bretonnia an 8th Ed book and I'm confident it would demolish the Empire with cavalry charges aplenty.

That of course depends on what the potential new book would contain. They could become the strongest army in the game, the weakest army in the game or anything in between.

All we could do is pointlessly speculate, however seeing as GW will never release an 8th edition book for them the argument is moot, and the point stands.

 

[blackrainbow]

As a short jump-in to the conversation, GW will release anything they can keep an IP on while making it appeal to the largest audience with purchasing power. This is the modern (and I would argue future) business model as opposed GW in the "golden age" when they first came out and seemed more like a company that tried to make as many cool models and stories and heros as they could, because cool. AoS dumbed down so much and combined so many as to make it appealable to the largest possible audience. On that note, killing special characters (another thread I was reading) and homogenizing factions says no, GW will never re-release TK.

OPs first post seemed more like they wanted the models and would play outside of AoS, which is fine and what I am looking at as well. As GW advances their new narrative, anything resembling cool** is out the window and we combine the mass market strategy and all we have is a generic Death faction.


**"cool" is of course subjective, and their idea Sigmarines as they poster child-everything are not my version of cool in the slightest. Dinosaur riding lizards are. So are thematic armies like TK and ancient undead Egyptian skeletons.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

OPs first post seemed more like they wanted the models

Which I have now acquired. I no longer care if GW releases TK or not.

and would play outside of AoS

Most definitely. 8th Edition Warhammer Fantasy Battles!

which is fine and what I am looking at as well

A kindred spirit, I wish you good luck in your endeavors!

**"cool" is of course subjective, and their idea Sigmarines as they poster child-everything are not my version of cool in the slightest.

Agreed!

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

As a short jump-in to the conversation, GW will release anything they can keep an IP on while making it appeal to the largest audience with purchasing power. This is the modern (and I would argue future) business model as opposed GW in the "golden age" when they first came out and seemed more like a company that tried to make as many cool models and stories and heros as they could, because cool. AoS dumbed down so much and combined so many as to make it appealable to the largest possible audience. On that note, killing special characters (another thread I was reading) and homogenizing factions says no, GW will never re-release TK.

The outlook certainly doesn't look good for our mummified friends. This is certainly the norm for businesses nowadays as the friendly, easygoing companies who just want to make models for the sake of making them look epic and selling them at decent prices have all either been bought out, gone bust or, like GW, joined the crowd of truly competitive firms. The golden age was in the days of 7th and 8th Ed I feel, when the first plastic characters were a snip at less than £10 and the proper races got a good look in.

OPs first post seemed more like they wanted the models and would play outside of AoS, which is fine and what I am looking at as well. As GW advances their new narrative, anything resembling cool** is out the window and we combine the mass market strategy and all we have is a generic Death faction.

Agreed - As GW advances their new story, all we have is Vampire Counts left, which are a completely unoriginal faction. Every fantasy wargames company under the sun has made some miniatures of Hammer-horror type Undead like the Vampire Counts and do GW decide to do something unique and original and ditch the filthy Vampire Counts in favour of the noble Tomb Kings? No, they do the reverse. Good job GW. If it wasn't for the Fyreslayers and Kharadron who are about the only interesting AoS-unique factions out there, I would have lost faith in you completely. Same with the Bretonnians - they remove the more interesting and aesthetically pleasing army and we are left with the Empire, a morbid skull-mad race with especially ugly faces. Once again, thanks a bundle GW.

**"cool" is of course subjective, and their idea Sigmarines as they poster child-everything are not my version of cool in the slightest. Dinosaur riding lizards are. So are thematic armies like TK and ancient undead Egyptian skeletons.

Agreed again. Once again, the only reason why I'm not an AoS hater is because of Fyrelsyers and Kharadron Overlords, who are probably the only two thematic armies GW has ever done since the release of AoS.

 

[pendrake]

Every fantasy wargames company under the sun has made some miniatures of Hammer-horror type Undead like the Vampire Counts and do GW decide to do something unique and original and ditch the filthy Vampire Counts in favour of the noble Tomb Kings? No, they do the reverse. Good job GW. If it wasn't for the Fyreslayers and Kharadron who are about the only interesting AoS-unique factions out there, I would have lost faith in you completely. Same with the Bretonnians - they remove the more interesting and aesthetically pleasing army and we are left with the Empire, a morbid skull-mad race with especially ugly faces.

Tomb Kings, Problem:
War Gods of Ægypt™
and
Nefsokar™

Other Minis Makers could make Egyptoid stuff with impunity.

I miss the Bretonnians also.

Bretonnia, Problem:
Anybody with Hundred Years War or Wars of the Roses models could field them, just add some Damsels. And Reaper Minis makes about two pounds of weight in pewter of Damsel-on-foot models.

Vampire Counts, Why, why them?:
...because they managed to sell a lot of it? Despite its generic, horror-hammer looks? That's my guess.

~~~~~

All that said: just because I might see reasons for it doesn't mean I approve or admire the Lords of the Citadel for what they've done.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

GW decide to do something unique and original and ditch the filthy Vampire Counts in favour of the noble Tomb Kings? No, they do the reverse. Good job GW.

Same with the Bretonnians - they remove the more interesting and aesthetically pleasing army and we are left with the Empire, a morbid skull-mad race with especially ugly faces. Once again, thanks a bundle GW.

I think it all comes down to sales. I like Tomb Kings infinitely more than Vampire Counts, but I can admit that in my time in the hobby I've seen way more people with VC armies than TK armies. The same is true between Empire and Bretonnians.

GW produces what they the masses will throw the most money at. Why do they have such a love for Space Marines?... because they are their all time best seller. If TK sold as many models as Space Marines, I'd bet that not only would they still be around, but they would be front and center. Admittedly the Space Marine example is a bit extreme, but the point is that TK and Bretonnia were always among their less successful armies from a sales point of view.

 

[Crowsfoot]

I think it all comes down to sales. I like Tomb Kings infinitely more than Vampire Counts, but I can admit that in my time in the hobby I've seen way more people with VC armies than TK armies. The same is true between Empire and Bretonnians.

GW produces what they the masses will throw the most money at. Why do they have such a love for Space Marines?... because they are their all time best seller. If TK sold as many models as Space Marines, I'd bet that not only would they still be around, but they would be front and center. Admittedly the Space Marine example is a bit extreme, but the point is that TK and Bretonnia were always among their less successful armies from a sales point of view.

I think your spot on and can you blame GW really for making and pushing what sells well?, It's the same in any business you make and sell what sells best.

I would love to see a return of the Hobgoblins and Halflings but I know that will never happen.

 

[Killer Angel]

I think your spot on and can you blame GW really for making and pushing what sells well?, It's the same in any business you make and sell what sells best.

I understand perfectly their pov.
But I blame them nonetheless.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

I understand perfectly their pov.
But I blame them nonetheless.

Can't argue with that!

 

[Lord-Marcus]

I think it all comes down to sales. I like Tomb Kings infinitely more than Vampire Counts, but I can admit that in my time in the hobby I've seen way more people with VC armies than TK armies. The same is true between Empire and Bretonnians.

GW produces what they the masses will throw the most money at. Why do they have such a love for Space Marines?... because they are their all time best seller. If TK sold as many models as Space Marines, I'd bet that not only would they still be around, but they would be front and center. Admittedly the Space Marine example is a bit extreme, but the point is that TK and Bretonnia were always among their less successful armies from a sales point of view.

I think the problem with popularity is the the mummy movies were a one shot-generally not redone deal.

Vampires, zombies and northern european asthetic skeletons are classic.

Which is unfortunate, as skeletal egyptians make more sense to me. it could also be an alien concept type of deal.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

I think the problem with popularity is the the mummy movies were a one shot-generally not redone deal.

Vampires, zombies and northern european asthetic skeletons are classic.

Which is unfortunate, as skeletal egyptians make more sense to me. it could also be an alien concept type of deal.

Agreed. Vampires are very popular in pop culture and have been for quite some time. The Egyptian undead angle is much more a of a niche.