Chameleon Skink
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Re: Caneghem's Review of the New Lizardmen! Update: Heroes a
I have no doubt that the extra attack is not an "initial supporting attack" and, thus, was intended to apply to all attacks by models with the PF rule (think about Krox in the second rank of a skrox unit) and does not require rolling to supporting attacks separately from the front rank R&F model attacks. However, it will probability still end up in a debate until FAq'd.
In answer on the issue of the oldblood extra value, I think people do not understand the concepts of force multiplier and survivability/resilience. As a Dark Elf player, I understand how important it is to have a character (dreadlord with pendant, crown of comman, and high AS on a peg or cold one) that can hold up something my army cannot deal with very well for a long time and to effectively deal with monsters and tough stuff. If I lose my dreadlord too early in the battle (usually to lore of death spells when temporarility out of combat or really bad luck on saves), my army is exposed and will lose given I'm playing in tournaments and ranked players. The oldblood is typically modestly more killy than a scra vet (25% more attacks with better probability of hitting on 3's than a scar vet) but it is the extra wound and the much ability to have a max armour save (+1 at least but also with more magic points to spend on heavy armour and ward save and still have luckstone or dawnstone). An extra +1 to the armour save is worth 50% more on an oldblood than a scar vet due to the extra wound. An extra +1 to the ward save is worth 50% more on an oldblood than a scar vet. Additionally, the value of increasing the ward save from 5+ to 4+ is a 33.35 increase in survivability whereas buying a 6+ ward save increases value by only 16.7%. With the armour saves, the math is even more dramatic. Going from a 3+ to a 2+ armour save is a huge benefit (doubles survivability against S3, 50% increase in survivability against S4, 33.3% increase against S5, and 25% increase against S6). Thus, the difference in value of 4+ scaly skin as compared with 5+ scaly skin when combined with light armour and shield or heavy armour (or something equivalent) when combined with +1 wound on the oldblood makes the oldblood worth between 187.5% and 300% more than a scar vet in terms of the rate at which victory points given up effectively. That does not consider the ability of the oldblood to combine the high armour save with a decent ward save and a re-roll of the AS well beyiond the scar vet. The dawnstone compiunds the value of that extra =1 scaly skin save on the oldblood. Combine that with the +1 attack and +1WS and you would, absent any army comprestrictions, always take one oldblood over two scar vets in terms of value in the game. for that reason.
You will run into a lot of situations where the scar vet dies three times or even six times faster than the oldblood in the same combat With the dead or fled rule, it is the ability of the oldblood to survive and fight another day (or at least get an extra round or two of attacks in combat asnd deny ACR) that makes him so good. With the Slann less powerful as a magic caster and magic defender, there are options for running two skinks priests (one a special character) with scroll and cube and fight without the Slann or run a less expensive slann and run a full oldblood. My son won one of his "tough" games this weekend even though his slann blew up early (due to soft comp scoring, he ran beast lore and no cupped hands) by running a light slann and a decent oldblood. Without the oldblood, even if he keeps his slann he loses that game and does not win a general award. By contrast, another local top LM player (top ranked and has won GTs) blew up his slann against me last year in the fifth round of a GT and got massacred without an oldblood to deal with my daemons army that loses more than half of the time to my son's slann army and still loses about a third of the time if the slann blows up in midgame.
I have no doubt that the extra attack is not an "initial supporting attack" and, thus, was intended to apply to all attacks by models with the PF rule (think about Krox in the second rank of a skrox unit) and does not require rolling to supporting attacks separately from the front rank R&F model attacks. However, it will probability still end up in a debate until FAq'd.
In answer on the issue of the oldblood extra value, I think people do not understand the concepts of force multiplier and survivability/resilience. As a Dark Elf player, I understand how important it is to have a character (dreadlord with pendant, crown of comman, and high AS on a peg or cold one) that can hold up something my army cannot deal with very well for a long time and to effectively deal with monsters and tough stuff. If I lose my dreadlord too early in the battle (usually to lore of death spells when temporarility out of combat or really bad luck on saves), my army is exposed and will lose given I'm playing in tournaments and ranked players. The oldblood is typically modestly more killy than a scra vet (25% more attacks with better probability of hitting on 3's than a scar vet) but it is the extra wound and the much ability to have a max armour save (+1 at least but also with more magic points to spend on heavy armour and ward save and still have luckstone or dawnstone). An extra +1 to the armour save is worth 50% more on an oldblood than a scar vet due to the extra wound. An extra +1 to the ward save is worth 50% more on an oldblood than a scar vet. Additionally, the value of increasing the ward save from 5+ to 4+ is a 33.35 increase in survivability whereas buying a 6+ ward save increases value by only 16.7%. With the armour saves, the math is even more dramatic. Going from a 3+ to a 2+ armour save is a huge benefit (doubles survivability against S3, 50% increase in survivability against S4, 33.3% increase against S5, and 25% increase against S6). Thus, the difference in value of 4+ scaly skin as compared with 5+ scaly skin when combined with light armour and shield or heavy armour (or something equivalent) when combined with +1 wound on the oldblood makes the oldblood worth between 187.5% and 300% more than a scar vet in terms of the rate at which victory points given up effectively. That does not consider the ability of the oldblood to combine the high armour save with a decent ward save and a re-roll of the AS well beyiond the scar vet. The dawnstone compiunds the value of that extra =1 scaly skin save on the oldblood. Combine that with the +1 attack and +1WS and you would, absent any army comprestrictions, always take one oldblood over two scar vets in terms of value in the game. for that reason.
You will run into a lot of situations where the scar vet dies three times or even six times faster than the oldblood in the same combat With the dead or fled rule, it is the ability of the oldblood to survive and fight another day (or at least get an extra round or two of attacks in combat asnd deny ACR) that makes him so good. With the Slann less powerful as a magic caster and magic defender, there are options for running two skinks priests (one a special character) with scroll and cube and fight without the Slann or run a less expensive slann and run a full oldblood. My son won one of his "tough" games this weekend even though his slann blew up early (due to soft comp scoring, he ran beast lore and no cupped hands) by running a light slann and a decent oldblood. Without the oldblood, even if he keeps his slann he loses that game and does not win a general award. By contrast, another local top LM player (top ranked and has won GTs) blew up his slann against me last year in the fifth round of a GT and got massacred without an oldblood to deal with my daemons army that loses more than half of the time to my son's slann army and still loses about a third of the time if the slann blows up in midgame.
