1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

8th Ed. The Best Monstrous Infantry unit in all of Warhammer

Discussion in 'Other Armies Discussion' started by Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl, Nov 12, 2020.

  1. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

    Messages:
    38,664
    Likes Received:
    112,271
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's a tough call... disadvantaging the Maneaters and giving the Ironguts a huge boost. If the Maneaters were given the Banner of Eternal Flame I would have chosen them to win.

    The Banner of the Eternal Flame does give a unit an auto-loss against the Fireborn, but it massively helps them in like 6 other matches. But yes, you are right, the more units that take the banner, the more the Fireborn are advantaged.

    Personally, I wouldn't give the Banner of the Eternal Flame to anyone, it feels a bit like list-tailoring specifically for the tournament.
     
    Lizards of Renown likes this.
  2. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    OldBlood

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,710
    Likes Received:
    8,889
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That’s fair. On second thoughts it does seem an unfair tailored advantage to give one unit the BoEF and another a different one.

    Instead I’ll give the Ironguts the Standard of Discipline to boost their Leadership to 8, and retain the War Banner for the Maneaters as they are already Stubborn.

    As an aside I realised I had forgotten Fenbeasts from Storm of Magic, so I’ve included them in the list of fighters as well, as I’m pitting all Monstrous Infantry units in the game against each other. I’ve chosen Born from Bloodmarsh as their upgrade as they are already defensively strong with T5, Regeneration and 4 wounds each, while Frenzy will give them a bit more offensive punch. They join the Fimir as being one of the most expensive units per model, but unlike the Fimir I think these are worth their increased cost because of their durability.
     
  3. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

    Messages:
    38,664
    Likes Received:
    112,271
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Do they really need that banner though? Is it worth it, considering that it represents a significant portion of the cost of an additional model? And in a tournament where they are already essentially unbreakable.

    Just like with the White Lions in my tournament, spending points on a banner can hurt you in close matchups. The Flame banner is worth it, but I think the War Banner is not... at least not in their case. I'd go with the Banner of the Eternal Flame or none at all. That's just my opinion though, the decision is ultimately up to you.
     
  4. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    OldBlood

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,710
    Likes Received:
    8,889
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I’m still going to go by the War Banner. 1 extra point of Combat Resolution is still a helpful bonus, especially as the Maneaters are often going to be outnumbered in this contest. 1 extra point of combat resolution could be all that’s needed to force a larger unit low-Leadership enemies to flee and give the Maneaters the win, where otherwise that same unit would gradually overwhelm them.
     
  5. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

    Messages:
    38,664
    Likes Received:
    112,271
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So be it Jedi. ;)


    For the record, my pick for the winner of the tournament would have been:

    Maneaters
    • Poisoned Attacks
    • Stubborn
    • Additional hand weapon - front rank only
    • no weapon upgrade for supporting/back ranks
    • Banner of the Eternal Flame
     
  6. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    OldBlood

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,710
    Likes Received:
    8,889
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Time for another round! This time it's another clash of ancient foes, this time Beastmen vs Wood Elves! It's the Minotaurs taking on the Tree Kin!

    Key rules in play:
    Minotaurs: Additional Hand Weapons, Bloodgreed
    Tree Kin: Flammable, Scaly Skin (4+), 6+ Ward Save
    Minotaurs vs Tree Kin.PNG

    Well, that was a quick one and no mistake! The bulls didn't like the taste of bark and stampeded off back into the woods to find something more edible. Indeed it seems the Tree Kin were pretty much built as a hard counter to Minotaur-type infantry, with their Weapon Skill of 4 and Toughness 5 forcing the Minotaurs to hit and wound on 4s, their armour and Ward saves giving them a measure of additional defence and their Initiative of 3 forcing the Minotaurs to attack at the same time rather than first. Of course because the Minotaur unit fled with so few wounds lost, in an actual game it would easily be possible for them to rally and contribute more to the battle, but in this fight at least once you've fled, you've lost!

    Just for fun, I tried out the other Minotaur weapon options to see how they got on:
    Great Weapon Minotaurs fared similarly poorly - though they were able to wound the Tree Kin on 2s and were able to inflict enough wounds to them in the first round to squeak a win and start the Bloodgreed train running, the fact they had to strike last meant they lost a model before they could even fight, hampering their chances from the beginning and damning them into losing the second fight. The Tree Kin ended up with a few less wounds, but the Minotaurs were left with far less than the AHW option, leaving them vulnerable to being shot to pieces by a Wood Elf unit even if they did manage to rally.
    Minotaurs with Great Weapons vs Tree Kin.PNG

    This fight, by contrast, was by far the most exciting. By taking shields the Minotaurs were able to give themselves a 5+ Armour Save and 6+ Parry save, which after armour save modifiers made them as durable against the Tree Kin as the Tree Kin were against them, tipping the balance enough for them to consistently win the combat by 1 and gain an extra attack each round from Bloodgreed, which essentially helped to replace the attacks of the slain rear-rank models. Unfortunately the superior numbers of the Wood Elf answer to Dreadnoughts again meant the Minotaurs still ultimately lost, but their increased resilience coupled up with the Bloodgreed attack-spamming train meant they were able to whittle the Tree Kin down to below half-strength, which in a battle could certainly have set them up to be cut down by a large unit of Bestigors or a Ghorgon.
    Minotaurs with Shields vs Tree Kin.PNG

    Unusually the Hand Weapon and Shield option has proved to be the best for the Minotaurs against this type of foe, but I still went by the Additional Hand Weapon option for this tournament because I'm pretty sure it'll prove the most successful against the majority of enemies, especially when combined with Bloodgreed.

    Anyway, in this battle at least the Forces of Order have struck back with a Massive Victory against the Forces of Destruction! I will now add it to the table:
    Round 2.PNG

    Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
  7. NIGHTBRINGER
    Slann

    NIGHTBRINGER Second Spawning

    Messages:
    38,664
    Likes Received:
    112,271
    Trophy Points:
    113
    @Mrs. NIGHTBRINGER will be pleased. Wood Elves for the win.





    On a different note, with no one else having flaming attacks, I'm picking the Fireborn to be the tourney winners.
     
  8. Lizards of Renown
    OldBlood

    Lizards of Renown Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,029
    Likes Received:
    9,463
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well I'm certainly interested to see how this all turns out. I'm unfamiliar with a lot of the troops on the list with the various expansions so it will be interesting to see how they do.

    Never thought Tree-Kin were a force to be reckoned with but I guess they are! Minotaurs are nothing to be scoffed at.
     
  9. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    OldBlood

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,710
    Likes Received:
    8,889
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They are my choice too - even if I had given the Ironguts and Maneaters flaming attacks, while they would have decimated Flammable and Regenerative units alongside the Fireborn, they would automatically lose against the Fireborn themselves, who would profit massively from their defeats. What’s more they also have the best Ward Save of any unit which will make them extremely durable, but I’ll still resolve the entire contest to its conclusion regardless.

    I was rooting for the Minotaurs in this one because
    1. I’m a fan of Greek myth
    2. Their great plastic models are one of the reasons why I’m going for Beastmen as my third Destruction army
    So I was a little surprised and sad to see all three combos trumped by the Tree Kin, but Tree Kin are a cool unit and I’d rather the Minotaurs lose against them than a unit I like a lot less (I think you can guess the units that I want to lose in this tourney).
     
    Lizards of Renown likes this.
  10. Lizards of Renown
    OldBlood

    Lizards of Renown Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,029
    Likes Received:
    9,463
    Trophy Points:
    113
  11. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    OldBlood

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,710
    Likes Received:
    8,889
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Tomorrow. At the moment I’m only able to post match-ups on Mondays and Fridays due to complications that would take forever to explain, but the next one will be soon, I promise you! Indeed if it’s a short one like the Minotaurs vs Tree Kin fight, I might be able to post a couple on the ‘morrow.
     
    Lizards of Renown likes this.
  12. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    OldBlood

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,710
    Likes Received:
    8,889
    Trophy Points:
    113
    As promised, here's the next fight - who will win? A mob of hungry Ogres barging their way toward the refreshments table, or a load of Trolls that have surfaced from underneath the nearest bridge?

    Key rules in play:
    Ogre Bulls: Additional Hand Weapons
    River Trolls: Regeneration (4+), River Troll
    Ogres vs Trolls.PNG

    Another quick win! Here the combination of the -1 to Hit penalty for attacking a stinky River Troll and the creatures' natural regenerative hide helps them to weather the tide of Ogre attacks, and their own equally strong attacks knock the Ogres for six and force them to run after only a single round.

    I think this win was largely expected, but I personally was expecting 10 Ogres with Additional Hand Weapons to do more damage. But then, that's the power of Regeneration - stay away from fire, and you're laughing. As a result, the Ogres had to pay The Troll TollTM.

    In that case, let's update the scoreboard:
    Round 3.PNG

    Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2020 at 7:06 PM
  13. Lizards of Renown
    OldBlood

    Lizards of Renown Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,029
    Likes Received:
    9,463
    Trophy Points:
    113
    With no flaming attacks and no Ogre Charge utilization this was a foregone conclusion. They have equivalent toughness and WS, but S5 and the 4+ regen save just makes it no contest whatsoever... :(

    It's a funny one, if I was playing an O&G army, I would definitely make sure that my Maneaters had flaming attacks and then I would give them Scouts as one of their upgrades and take out the Trolls before they could do too much damage. (I absolutely LOVE the fact that they can be scouts. Mainly for the mental imagery it gives me of the Maneaters disguising themselves as trees and tip-toe'ing past sentries, fantastic stuff!)
     
  14. Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl
    OldBlood

    Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,710
    Likes Received:
    8,889
    Trophy Points:
    113
    All right, here's another bout! This time a band of Ironguts plodding through Sylvania are ambushed by a coven of Vargheists descending upon them from the gothic spires. Who will triumph?

    Key rules in play:
    Ironguts: Great Weapons, Standard of Discipline (+1 Leadership)
    Vargheists: Frenzy

    Ironguts vs Vargheists.PNG
    Once again the Ogres are promptly massacred, this time by a load of bloodthirsty man-bats. Striking last, plus having to hit on 4s against the Vargheists' superior Weapon Skill, really did it in for the Ironguts here. Not even their Magic Standard could save them from the fear of being so soundly beaten in combat.

    Without further ado, let's update the scoreboard:
    Round 4.PNG

    Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!!
     
  15. Lizards of Renown
    OldBlood

    Lizards of Renown Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,029
    Likes Received:
    9,463
    Trophy Points:
    113
    [Spits] I have nothing to say. But I feel a very Dwarf-like grudge building against anyone who ambushes the Ogre entrants of the competition.

    Vargheists are not core troops right? They're Special or Rare?
     

Share This Page