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8th Ed. The Path to Awesome - Tracking Every Game Ever

re: 11/22 game vs. Bretonnians 2K

Was wondering when you were going to post this one!!

For posterity sake: Game was Blood and Glory - and I frankly I don't believe I would have won if it had been a pitched battle.

The Green Knight
HKB Lord w/ dawnstone
BSB w/ sword of might
Pally on Peg w/ gromril helm
L1 beasts on horse
L1 life on foot w/ mirror

Men at Arms, FC, (38)
Bowmen (10)
Knights of the Realm (12), FC
KoR (11), FC
Treb
Treb

It was an extremely close game. The Krox fluffing the flank charge against the knight bus really cost, as well as the Saurus fluffing the flank against the other bus - this broke your old blood carnosaur but I wasn't able to run him down - he ended up rallying next turn and wrecking the BSB bus later in the game. We were both down lots of fortitude and I think that if the game went another turn you would have turned the tide.

Glad to see you dropped the cohort unit.

On your most recent game vs. DE - were you running your Saurus in horde? I've found that they die too fast to run them wide. You can maintain steadfast (and not have to use a crown) if you run them 5x. Even if they lose two shots at a cold blooded 8 is pretty decent. I've settled on 30 as a sweet spot personally (5x6), but in games where I do add more I would just add ranks. Keeping tetto alive by dropping behind the unit will allow you to keep iceshard (hopefully) on the unit engaged with the Saurus. The first round of combat is generally when you want to limit their attacks - you are generally striking last anyway (except vs. Great weapons) and can always reform wide if the combat goes in your favor.

Keep them coming!
 
A note on tetto: He still gets look out sir with the saurus. It's unit-type that matters, not foot-print.

He should be easily protected, since he always can run away of things gets heated?
 
True he does get a LoS but is in the first rank and should be killed in the first round of any combat. Drop him out the back before you get stuck in.
 
Knight Errant said:
Was wondering when you were going to post this one!!

For posterity sake: Game was Blood and Glory - and I frankly I don't believe I would have won if it had been a pitched battle.
Click to expand...


=> Wowzers! Thanks for coming to the rescue. Man, did I ever have that one wrong! :) Serves me right for taking too long to post it.

Screamer said:
A note on tetto: He still gets look out sir with the saurus.
Click to expand...
=> You are correct, of course. Post modified. Thank you.
 
Game 10 - 2400 vs Chaos Dwarfs

Date: December 7, 2013
Opponent: Chaos Dwarfs
Point Value: 2400
Scenario: Meeting Engagement

Overview
Yay! 10th game! Heading into the game I decided I was going to try to put all my lessons learned to use, keep the Oldblood and his Carnosaur near my Saurus for a good combo charge (with TrogRoar support), and so on.

Then I rolled Meeting Engagement and things went wunky. We had 2 marshes, 2 buildings, 2 woods, and two hills as our terrain, and the marshes were both quicksand. Not good. Between those, the deployment, and having to roll reserves, things got jumbled up.

I only ended up having one skink unit get delayed (and he got his Iron Demon delayed), but it was still a crazy fight, as you will read.

My army:
1 Oldblood on Carnosaur with Loping Stride - Armor of Destiny, Dawnstone, Sword of Battle, Shield
1 Skink Chief - Ripperdactyl, Shield of Ptolos, Potion of Toughness, Spear, Light Armor
1 Skink BSB - Shield, Light Armor
1 Tetto'Eko

13 Skink Skirmishers
12 Skink Skirmishers
40 Saurus - Full Command

6 Kroxigore
1 Bastiladon - Solar Engine

1 Ancient Stegadon
1 Troglodon with Divining Rod

His army (sort of) :
L3 Wizard (Ash Storm, -1 Ld spell, and the magic missile)
BSB

20 hobgoblins with short bows
20 hobgoblins with short bows
25 great weapon stunties
12 fireglaive guys

Iron Demon
Rocket
Hellcannon
Magma Cannon
Magma Cannon

K'Wtf Destroyer (my nickname for the K'Daii Thingie)

Summary of Events
He deployed his K'Wtf right across from my horde of saurus, which frightened me. Tetto gave me three vanguard units and so I made this one of them. They backed up out of K'Wtf charge range. The rest of my line had skinks to the left of the saurus, in a building, then the Saurus, then the Krox, and then my monsters. The Ripper Chief was all the way on the right.

His stuff was 'central' and hung back a bit, near the war machine battery. Dear lord, all those war machines.

I go to go first.

Honestly, there was not a whole lot of massive strategy this game. He ran his K'Wtf toward me while I ran my Krox, Carno, and Ripper Chief toward his machines.

In his first movement phase, the K'Wtf took fire from all 25 skinks and the Trog, which resulted in him going down to only 2 wounds left! One failed burning body check could end him, but, --spoiler alert-- he passed it every time.

The monster engaged my (reformed to be deep instead of horde) Saurus, who put plenty of attacks on him but never could do those two wounds (for those who don't know, he's T6 or 7 with a 4+ ward and you have to re-roll all successful wounds against him). I did one, but not two. After about 4 rounds of combat, he killed all 40 Saurus, but then stood there next to the tower of skinks who....yes, that's right...FINISHED HIM OFF! Go poison!

While this epic fight was going on, my kroxigor and carnosaur tore into his machines. I did lose the Carnosaur (but not the rider) to his GW stunties at one point, but the damage was done. By the end of the game, all his machines were dead.

Special mention must go to the Ripper Chief, who engaged the Rocket, killed it over two turns, and then locked up the Iron Demon for something like 6 rounds of combat before finally dying. He was a real trooper.

As far as magic goes, I used all my dice to stop Ash Storm each turn and just let him keep dropping the Ld of my guys. I didn't plan to lose combats and have to take Ld checks, so it was no big deal to me. :)

Tetto dropped a comet fairly early that I kept trying to keep from coming down since my general and krox were near the marker. It did eventually drop, with 3 markers, killing a war machine or two and some kroxigor. Check this out, though. The Old Blood was hit with 7 S7 wounds, but between his 1+ armor and 4+ ward he took only 1 wound! Yeah, baby!

When the dust settled, a whole bunch of stuff was dead. There really was not much left on the table, but it was pretty even...

Result: 1250 to 1300. 50 Point Draw.

Post-game Thoughts and Unit Evaluations

Given how the scenario sort of messed with what I wanted to do, and accounting for the fact that one single stinking monster ate my entire Saurus horde to the man, I felt like things went ok. Yeah, the carnosaur died again, but that's pretty much expected. Man, is he easy to kill!

Changes are coming to the list, for sure, but not really anything major.

Skink Skirmishers
Today they earned their keep big time. They are why the K'Wtf died, and that's something I rarely was able to do with my old army. If I didn't want so many other things in my army, I could see myself trying to add some more of these.

Saurus Warrior Horde
It was abad matchup for them. They lasted longer than I thought they would, to be honest. Against other enemies, I think they will do well. They pump out a ton of attacks, and if you can get the Trog timed right, they are great.

Troglodon
More and more I find myself thinking that this guy has one problem and one problem only - his Roar needs to work on any one combat phase, not just one of yours. Saurus are likely to be charged. If you could Roar when they get charged, it would really help. As it was, I did use them to help the Krox and General fight better, and it caused a few extra hits.

Bastilladon
This was not his best game. I could not shoot the K'Wtf since it has a 2+ ward vs flaming. This left him with just a few other targets and he never really did anything. As I say though, he's cheap, so it's ok.

Ancient Stegadon
His war machines killed it easily. Oh well.

Kroxigor
They just keep on making me happy. Sure, they were dead by the end of the game, but they drew a ton of attention and killed a unit of hobgoblins and a magma cannon. Good for them.

Skink BSB
This was another game where I never had to use his re-rolls, but he's so cheap that it's not wasted points to take him.

Chief on Ripperdactyl
Woot! A dead Rocket and a fully-delayed Iron Demon for about 125points? Hell yeah! He really did his job for me this game. Plus, I finally got to build the proper model (with a little conversion work to boot) and I have to say that this kit is another example of just how awesome the newer plastics are. Did you know that the standard terradon/ripper box actually lets you build a chief if you want and not just the special character. Seriously, GW, well done.

Oldblood on Carnosaur
I'm getting more than a little tired of the monster getting killed. This time he made it into combat. When I asked my opponent what he was going to attack, the rider or the carnosaur, he said "The monster, of course." Something has to be done to let this weakling live longer. That said, at least his points are kept as long as my 1+ re-rollable, 4+ ward Oldblood lives...which he did. :)

Tetto'Eko
Once again you fail to impress. Yes, he allowed the Saurus to vanguard away from the K'Wtf, but is that worth the points? No. It's not. I could have (and would have) deployed further back with the Saurus unit if I did not have this option. Loremaster is cool, but it's not like I'm getting more than a spell or, at most, two off per turn anyway. His base is hard to deal with. He miscasts a ton (re-rolling 1's is not a boon) and dies very easily. The only thing keeping him in my lists is the fact that I shelled out the dollars for the model. That's especially sad since the Ancient Stegadon comes with what is essentially a free plastic shaman (and I have 4 metal ones anyway). I'll use him a few more games, but so far his future with my is not looking so good.

That's it! I have another game from tonight to report, but that will have to wait. It's 2:30am and I need my beauty rest.

Thanks for reading!
 
Nice report Sleboda - I'm sure this is a matchup you used to dread with your TK so it's nice to see you dishing the pain now!

One thought about your ripper build - if you sacked the Toughness potion (although it probably saved him this game) and went with dragonbane gem it might give you a little more utility when you run up against big flaming monsters. Imagine your 125 pt ripper holding up the K'dwtf all game!

If you drop Tetto what do you think you will replace him with? You could really impact the magic phase with L1 heavens with scroll (90) and L1 beasts with cube (95) for I believe the same cost? Two-ish scrolls and some nice signature spells. Or just go with one (you had no scroll previously with Tetto so 1 might feel great) and pick up another Krox or unit of skinks or something.

Can't wait to play again!
 
I know its list building but if Im playing Chaos dwarves one multiwound character has the helm with 2+ ward against flaming attacks. <s> challenge time and tar pit him...</s>

my bad, just checked on this...looks like you cant challange him so you would need to probably hit him with a scarvet with the helm on a cold one...(obviously this is if you know you are playing chaos dwarves)
 
Game 11 - 2400 vs Dogs of War

Date: December 7, 2013
Opponent: Dogs of War Fan-made Army
Point Value: 2400
Scenario: Battleline

I don't really have much to say. I played this game because my opponent wanted to play and like the phrase goes "No such thing as bad pizza...just some's better 'n others."

Nothing to report really because I don't consider it a game of Warhammer since one of the armies was not a Warhammer Army. He had strong infantry containing characters that are not paid for from character points, human skirmishers that can fight, scouting ogre maneaters, a block of ironguts, several war machines, and wizards with items that nobody else can take. Pretty much it's some fan's wet dream, not a "real" army in the game system.

His cannon - singular - won him the game when it killed two monsters in one shot.

Yawn.
 
Sheesh it's just the 5th edition DoW book with some minor updates to make it 8th edition compatable.
it's as legit as Choos Dwarves that used to be in the same category, both are allowed in tournies now and then.
 
The standard of "official" is not "Do tournaments allow it" or not.

Chaos Dwarfs (Tamurkhan) is an actual, GW created and published, army within the Warhammer World. It's 100% official.

Dogs of War is not. It's the same as all those other ones (Cathay, Arabia, Amazona, Halflings, etc.) - that is to say, no more legitimate than anything I might draw up in my basement to play against a buddy on the weekend.

Please note that I am not saying there is anything wrong with that enthusiasm or with the desire for fans to add to their gaming experience. Far from it. Fans have been contributing to their favorite things forever, and not just in Warhammer. It's just that whatever a fan might make up is, no mater how good or bad, not part of the offical canon/system. I've read some well-written Star Wars fanfic where Chewy and Leia get it on. Great, that's nice, but that doesn't mean it actually (within the context of the Lucas SW universe as we watch and read it) happened.

The fan Dogs book is swell, but it's NOT a Warhammer Army book. I have no interest in trying to figure out tactics against it than I do trying to figure out how to beat the Amazon army.

EDIT: BTW, there was no 7th edition Warhammer Armies book - just another fan book. DoW has not been a GW army book since 5th (!!!) edition.
 
n810 said:
But what i'm saying is......

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dogs-of-War...?pt=Games_US&hash=item417955a59a#ht_65wt_1007
Click to expand...

Using an edition of warhammer 15 years old and dubbed "herohammer" for it's ridiculously strong hero section doesn't really prove dogs of war is a GW army at present.

I feel Sleboda is right here tbh - Dogs of war is player made, and if using "current" rules, they're fetched online and player made.

In 6th edition Dogs of war had been reduced to addons for other armies, and by 7th they had been discontinued - the models are sold only to generate profit, playing with them might be tournament sanctioned - but since 6th edition it isn't exactly covered by the GW core rules - hence it isn't and official army anymore.

Using your logic i could field an army of Slann, Zoat or Kislev and should not be getting complaints for any of them.

The only official unofficial rule book as of current is chaos dwarfs, i too wouldn't see dogs of war as a regular opponent depending greatly on what rules were used - and if tournament rules of any types were used i'd ask to look those over before making my opinion on the subject known. I have knowledge of at least one website which offers for free outdated, updated rulebooks made my players for players.
 
Game 12 - 2400 vs Dark Elves (game #4)

Date: December 11, 2013
Opponent: Dark Elves (regular opponent)
Point Value: 2400
Scenario: Battleline

Overview
I decided to make no changes at all to my army from last game, just to see if I could make some improvements based on playing better. My opponent, on the other hand, finally got to field his Kharibdyss!

As is usual for our time-cramped games at the Chicago Battlebunker, we opted to just arrange some terrain in a pleasing manner and play Battleline. I prefer to randomize it all, but there just isn't time when we play there. We had a village of about 5 buildings on the right, a hill in each zone on the sides, and some woods in the middle.



My army:
1 Oldblood on Carnosaur with Loping Stride - Armor of Destiny, Dawnstone, Sword of Battle, Shield
1 Skink Chief - Ripperdactyl, Shield of Ptolos, Potion of Toughness, Spear, Light Armor
1 Skink BSB - Shield, Light Armor
1 Tetto'Eko

13 Skink Skirmishers
12 Skink Skirmishers
40 Saurus - Full Command

6 Kroxigore
1 Bastiladon - Solar Engine

1 Ancient Stegadon
1 Troglodon with Divining Rod

His army (sort of) :
L3 Sorceress (Doom Bolt, Bladewind, Soul Drain - or whatever the soul spell is called)
She was in a unit of 24 spearmen

BSB on Cauldron in a unit of 20 Witch Elves
General on Cold One with Giant Blade
Hero on Cold One with Crown of Command

Both Cold One characters were in a block of 10 Cold One Knights

24 Corsairs
5 Dark Riders (man, 4+ save is too good for them)
5 Shades with two hand weapons
Kharibdyss

Him, from left to right: knights, spears, kharibdyss, witches, shades (at the midline of the table to prevent my vanguards), corsairs, dark riders (who used vanguard to advance into the village).

Me, from left to right: Krox, Trog, Saurus Horde+Tetto, Oldblood on Carno, skinks with BSB, Bastilladon (behind skinks), skinks, Stegadon, ripper chief.

I advanced the Trog, Krox, and ripper chief with Vanguard.

I went first.

Summary of Events
Dammit. I had the first two turns written up here and lost them. Ugh. Here I go again:

Turn 1 - I wanted to get my skinks+BSB in a nearby tower, but could not get there before the Shades could, so I decided to shoot them with skinks and the Bastilladon and the Dark Riders with other skinks and the Ancient. In magic the Bastilladon failed, Thunderbolt vs. Kharibdyss was dispelled with a scroll, and Chain Lightning failed by 1. All my shooting managed to kill one Shade and no more Dark Riders. The Trog spit missed Kharibdyss.

He took the tower with the Shades, charged the skinks with the Dark Riders, and advanced other stuff, though he played a bit of a game of chicken with the Krox. Neither one of us wanted to receive the charge there. His 11 power dice magic phase killed 6 skinks with the Soul Spell, 17 Saurus with Blade Wind, and had Doombolt on the Trog dispelled. Shooting killed few more skinks. In combat I lost 4 skinks to the dark riders and did not run away.

Turn 2 - The ripper chief drank his toughness potion and charged the rear of the dark riders. The Krox got a long distance charge off on his Cold Ones! The Trog charged his mage bunker, which ran away, leaving the Trog out of position and ready to get smacked by Kharibdyss. The oldblood on carno charged the shades in the tower. Other stuff got into better positions, with Tetto backing away from the Saurus who then reformed to 6-wide , ready to take on Kharibdyss and/or the Witches.

Magic put 4 wounds on Kharibdyss with a Total Power Thunderbolt. This also wounded Tetto and drained my other power dice. I really wish the special dice-reroll power of Tetto were reversed. I hate Total Power.

Shooting was completely ineffective, oh, other than putting an end to Kharibdyss. :)

In hand to hand, my skinks got down to one model left and the Dark Riders were reduced to 1 model. He did not run.
My Oldblood obliterated the shades without the help of his mount.
The Krox killed 5 Cold One Knights, but took 7 wounds of their own. The Krox held.

In his turn he charged the Carno with with Witches. I ran of course. Rememer - it's almost never a good idea to engage that unit in the front. Just don't do it. His redirect sent them into the Saurus. I would have fled but I was 6 inches from the table edge. I knew I was dead, but I wanted to draw the witches out of position with their mandatory overrun/pursuit.

He also charged the rear of the ripper chief with his corsairs.

His magic killed some stuff, but nothing horrible. Shooting did nothing.

Hand to hand went as you would expect. The Krox were killed (ASF re-rolls have GOT to go away in 9th - too good in combo with Murderous Prowess), the Saurus were slaughtered and run down. The corsairs killed the ripper chief before he could kill the Dark Rider. I needed to make sure the skink did not kill that dark rider, because if he did the corsairs would be able to catch the oldblood. Luckily, the skink did his job and did not kill anything. The corsairs ran into the back of the Dark Rider.

Turn 3 - This would be our last turn since the store would close soon. I knew my Trog was going to die if I didn't pull of something heroic, so I declared a really long charge into his (rallied) mage bunker. I failed. Uh oh. I rallied my general.

I charged the flank of his corsairs with the Bastilladon.

Magic came around and I decided to put a big commet by my Trog. If he charged with the Cold Ones, I might kill him. It might even get his mage bunker to panic. As it turned out, he opted to retreat both units outside of the blast radius, leaving my Trog the only thing that could be hit in the blast. Oh well, he would have been dead to the Cold Ones anyway had I not put up the comet.

I had 4 blowpipe shots on the last dark rider, but failed to wound him (failed to even hit him at close range, actually).

The Bastilladon won his combat, but the elves were steadfast.

In his turn he just hung out, other than trying to finish off Tetto with the Dark Rider's shots, which failed.

Magic phase came and the comet came, despite re-rolling it for Tetto being out there. 13 S6 hits to the Trog did 6 wounds, killing it.

Game over.

Result: Major DE win (something like 300 to 1200).

Post-game Thoughts and Unit Evaluations


Skink Skirmishers
In this game, they would have been better off as javelin guys. I'm starting to lean toward javelins as the way to go, but I don't see it as the slam dunk that others do. I'll probably shift over to 2 or 3 10-man javelin chohort units and keep one 10-15 man blowpipe skirmish unit behind my lines to carry my wizard and bsb.

Saurus Warrior Horde
I really don't agree with people who say you should go narrow with these guys. Granted, I was taking on the single best combat unit in all of Wahammer, but the rate at which they die leaves them non-steadfast almost instantly, so you might as well generate as many attacks as you can to try to offset the damage. I'm adding the Crown of Command to this unit (dropping Tetto will help free up the points for it). Today they were a massive disappointment, and it should be pointed out that Temple Guard would have fared just as poorly in their place. For jeebus' sake, even the Cauldron's impact hits get to re-roll to-wound. Grr.

Troglodon
His early charge sent a unit + wizard packing due to him not wanting to get the wizard killed. Granted, they rallied, but that was no guarantee, and had he not rallied, the Trog would have seen them off. He got into enemy territory and made my opponent have to plan for how to deal with him, which was cool. People like to say he stinks, and if that's true, what's the harm in risking him this way?

Bastilladon
His blast did little (really should have been able to do more, but oh well) but he did hold of a block of corsairs. It seems like every game my opponents are surprised by his relatively weak damage output and I have to tell them "he's a support unit." As I've said before, his points are just right and I don't see myself leaving him at home very often.

Ancient Stegadon
He did so very little this game, which is sort of a trend for him. Those blowpipes are really hard to use right, since they are only BS3 and always are Multiple Shots, effectively making them BS2. Move at all or shoot over half range and you'll be lucky to get a few hits.

I don't see myself going with the Engine. Too many points for not much help.

Kroxigor
They died again, but that was mainly due to the Giant Blade guy and re-rolls to hit and re-rolls to wound. At least they killed a bunch of knights on the way and kept the knights off on the side for much of the game.

Skink BSB
In a unit of skirmishers he's rather good at surviving. His unit will lose some guys as he goes, making them even more able to squeeze into tight areas and offer re-rolls. Liking him.

Chief on Ripperdactyl
He is so hit-or-miss. Against the Chaos Dwarfs he was great. Today he was just ok. He's not a lot of points, I know, but those points could buy my Crown of Command guy. Hmm.

Oldblood on Carnosaur
Boy, he sure did kill 4 elves! That was all he did in the game, but at least the carnosaur lived.

Tetto'Eko
Gone. Hard to position, hard to use right. Expensive for what I get out of him. Bye bye.


Thanks for reading!
 
Anyway Dogs of war is basicly a weak Empire army, and nothing to cry cheese over.

Ps. the 6th edition thing was Regiments of the Renown,
those where to be used with dogs of war as specials and rares or
for use in other armies, in general they where overpriced units
with a free hero in the unit, one ot to of them where good,
the rest ranged from average to bad.
 
Wasn't crying cheese (though the ability to pick and choose the best stuff from several things is pretty good). Just saying the army is not worth figuring out how to beat since it's about as valid as me bringing Fishmen. :)

I didn't put any interest into trying to beat his army since I wasn't playing Warhammer anyway. The guy hosts us at his house, so as a courtesy I put my models on the table and rolled dice.
 
Game 13 - 2400 vs Regular Dark Elves (Game #5)

Date: December 18, 2013
Opponent: Dark Elves (regular opponent)
Point Value: 2400
Scenario: Battleline

Overview
With Tetto'Eko gone it was time to shake things up a bit. I added the Crown of Command to keep the Saurus around and converted the blowpipes to javelins.

Last time I focused heavily on taking out Kharibdyss. This time I wanted to keep the Cold Ones, Wizard, and Witches from deciding the game.

We had a village on my right, and a smattering of trees around the table. None of this really got in the way during the game.

My army:
1 Oldblood on Carnosaur with Loping Stride and Bloodroar - Armor of Destiny, Dawnstone, Sword of Battle, Shield
1 Skink Chief - Ripperdactyl, Shield of Ptolos, Potion of Toughness, Spear, Light Armor
1 L2 Beasts Skink (Wildform, Curse)
1 Scar-vet BSB - Crown of Command, Cold One, Light Armor, Charmed Shield

11 Skink Cohort
10 Skink Cohort
10 Skink Cohort
38 Saurus - Full Command

6 Kroxigore
1 Bastiladon - Solar Engine

1 Ancient Stegadon
1 Troglodon with Divining Rod


His army (sort of) :
L3 Sorceress (Doom Bolt, Bladewind, Word of Pain)
She was in a unit of 24 spearmen

BSB on Cauldron in a unit of 20 Witch Elves
General on Cold One with Giant Blade
Hero on Cold One with Crown of Command

Both Cold One characters were in a block of 10 Cold One Knights

24 Corsairs
5 Dark Riders
5 Shades with two hand weapons
Kharibdyss

The rough deployment, from my left to my right was:
Him - Cold Ones, Kharibdyss, Corsairs, Witches, Dark Riders, Spearmen - shades in the village
Me - Cohort, cohort, Krox, Trog, Bastiladon, Saurus, CarnosaurGeneral, Cohort with Wiz, Stegadon, RipperChief

He used Vanguard to get the Dark Riders near my center. I used it to put the RipperChief down the flank a bit.

I went first.

Turn 1
The game started with my first blunder. Even though I know potions are only half-turn items, I was so afraid I'd forget to use it that I used it now. Dumb.

The RipperChief zipped up in front of the spears+wizard and behind the shades. Other units moved into better positions, ready for some shooting, magic, and next turn action. Among these moves was getting the cohort+priest into a building.

In magic I finally got a 6 on the Bastiladon and wiped out the Dark Riders! He allowed me to cast wildform on the cohort in the building. He dispelled Curse on his Cold Ones.

Shooting killed one shade and put a wound on Kharibdyss, which it saved.

No hand to hand.

In the bottom half of the turn he tried to charge my Krox with his Cold One Obliteration Squad. They failed and moved up 4 inches. He did make the charge to my (now T3) RipperChief, positioning so that the wizard was not touching the Ripper. Other stuff advanced.

Magic put word of pain on the Saurus, which I was ok with since I was pretty sure I'd have another turn before I had to worry about it. I stopped his other spells.

Shooting had pretty much no effect.

The RipperChief was killed. We tracked it. Had I used the Potion correctly, I would have taken only 1 wound instead of the three that I did. Oh well.


Turn 2
The Krox charged the Cold Ones. Yes! No lances for you! :)
Other stuff advanced to get ready to take charges, retreated to avoid them, or shuffled around to get shots.

Magic was dispelled.

Shooting did almost nothing. The stegadon's blowpipes blow. BS3 makes them almost useless. Starting out needing a 4+ and then having -1 from Multiple Shots, -1 from moving, and -1 at anything over 9 inches away means needing 7's usually. I got to 8 inches away from the witches so I needed "only" 6's to hit, but come on, do the math. Details in the postgame.

In hand to hand, the Cold Ones did 9 wounds to my Kroxigor before they could swing. 9 wound. I could have lived with 8, but not 9. That 9th wound took away 3-4 attacks (I used the Trog roar for this combat).
In return I killed 6 Cold One Knights. I lost by 3, broke, got run down, and had both nearby cohort units flee. Great.


In his turn, he charged the Cold Ones into the flank of the Trog, the witches into the Stegadon (Stand and Shoot did nothing), and Kharibdyss into the Bastiladon. Other stuff shuffled about.

His magic was a repeat of last turn. I figured I had one more turn before the Saurus had to slam into the flank of the Witches, since the Stegadon should hold with Stubborn.

Shooting did nothing.

Combat: Kharybdiss did 3 wounds to the Bastiladon, which held. The Cold Ones obliterated the Troglodon. The witches did two wounds on impact (he rolled a 6 + 1 for hits, which he has done every single charge in our games so far) but, thanks to re-rollling EVERYTHING he got to re-roll the ones that failed and got two more. I failed all 4 saves. The remaining witches, with re-rolls to hit and re-roll to wound finished off the beast. Crap.


Turn 3
Well, there was nothing for it now but to charge in earlier than I wanted. I could not have that cauldron charging me. The Saurus unit hit the flank of the witches and the Carnosaur hit the front.

Magic was stopped.

Shooting did not matter.

In hand to hand he had 16 attacks (from 4 witches) against my saurus unit plus a challenge between his champion and my BSB. My BSB took no damage and did a grand total of 2 wounds to the champion. My Saurus lost 6 models to the 16 attacks and killed 2 in return. The General on Carnosaur directed his mighty 6 attacks at the T3 2W hag on the Cauldron...and did 1 wound. This was his BSB, by the way, which was a big deal. Oh, I forgot to say, my Carnosaur was once again dead before it could swing. 17 witch attacks plus a hag will do that. So, no attacks and no thunderstomp.

Still, when all was said and done, I had beaten him and he needed a 6 to stay with two shots at it. He rolled a 6 exactly. So, had I done that second wound on his hag from my General, he would have failed the initial check and had no re-roll. Son of a...


The bastiladon then died.

It all got pretty academic at this point. In his turn he charged the saurus with Kharybdiss, the Cold Ones, and the Corsairs and then did a boosted Word of Pain (ooooh, so hard on a 12+ at +4 from the caster...) and dropped the WS and S of the Saurus (including the BSB) by 3 points.

In combat my general challenged, which was taken by his cold one champion.

Before I could make a single attack (ASF army...whee!) he had taken my 32 remaining Saurus down to 9. I killed almost nothing in return. The Saurus held but my general broke.


Game Over.



Result: Obliteration in favor of the Dark Elves. I killed his Dark Riders. I had almost nothing left.

Post-game Thoughts and Unit Evaluations
Well, that was about as demoralizing as it gets. At that point last night, I really seriously considered hanging up Warhammer until 9th, with the idea that maybe my army will be viable then. Yeah, I could take salamanders and a mage priest, but both of those things detract from what I actually like about lizardmen. Interestingly, the things I love about the army - the Krox and the Monsters - were all the first things to die. The stuff I don't give a toss about - the saurus and the skinks - lasted.

Re-rolls from ASF + higher Initiative have GOT to go away in 9th. If they don't I'm pretty sure I will decline to play against Dark Elves. Re-rolling both the to hit rolls AND the to-wound rolls (remember, stuff within range of the Cauldron that has the Murderous rule gets to re-roll ALL failed to wound rolls - combat, shooting, spells - all of it, not just combat rolls of a 1.

I feel like I could handle the Cold One unit if he didn't get to re-roll both things. The S7 general of his will wound with every hit since he only fails on a 1 and gets to re-roll 1's, but since he also gets to re-roll to-hit rolls it pretty much means that every Attack on his profile is going to be a wound inflicted. The knights, who are S4 base just like our fierce and muscular Saurus Warriors, even get to help kill Krox pretty easily since they hit will all attacks for the most part, and then wound with 65% of their hits that also take a pip of armor save off. Ugh.

It really is true what they say - no matter what you think you have going for you, it's never smart to engage the witch+cauldron unit.

Man, I really don't want to have to give up on this army, but if it takes a slann, high magic, and salamanders to succeed, that's pretty crappy.


Skink Cohort
Not much different from skirmishers, really. Blowpipes get more chance, javelins get a bit more predictability.

Saurus Warrior Horde
Awful again. I can't believe our core choices are so limited. I thought the Crown of Command would be useful, but when you lose 20+ models at a time, it doesn't matter. See BSB comments below.

Troglodon
This is a sad, sad day for me. Probably the saddest decision I had to make with this army, but it looks like the Troglodon is leaving my army. I'm not getting to use his Vassal rule, and the roar is so hard to use correctly. Plus, the points I save on him get me the other two Krox I need to add and leave me some room to address some other needs. Best model in the book and now I won't even be using it. Man, 9th edition has GOT to do something to help with monsters in general and this guy in particular.

Bastilladon
He was a real champ today. I tried to combat reform after the first round vs Kharybdiss so that I could present his rear and get the attack that is S10 and +1 to hit. I failed so I was stuck on his 3 little attacks plus the riders' attacks. He died. Before that, though, he really took care of the Dark Riders and drew out dispel dice. I like him a lot.

Ancient Stegadon
I'm giving serious consideration to dropping back to a regular guy. I don't need the blowpipes or the bow, so whichever I get doesn't matter to me. Blowpipes average 14 shots, needing 6's to hit you get 2 hits at S3, which usually means no wounds after save, or maybe 1 if you are lucky. Yuck.

The Engine is too damn expensive for what it does. So, really we're looking at being able to save 15 points for only the loss of a pip of armor save and a point of Strength. For how easily he takes wounds anyway, the armor is no loss, so in my view it's really just 15 points for +1S. Not sure that's worth it.

Kroxigor
I'll miss the boost from the Troglodon. In this game the 3 survivors got 9 attacks that turned into 7 hits partly because of the boost to PF from the Trog (rolled 2 fives in the attack that became more attacks). The thing is, though, having 6 wounds more to soak up may mean I end up with 6 more attacks without having to roll PF. That would have been a huge difference in the first cold one fight and may have given me the entire unit. So, up to 8 we go for next game.

Saurus BSB on Cold One
He did nothing of note, provided no real insurance, and was overall just a pathetic waste. I'm thinking of filling my core with skinks from now on and just sitting them in a corner somewhere out of the way. If I have to play 600 points down as the tax to get to the army I actually want to play, so be it.

Chief on Ripperdactyl
This one was on me. I totally blew the timing of the potion. Maybe next time.

Oldblood on Carnosaur
Time and time again that poor beast dies. I'm really starting to get disillusioned with monsters, which is sad since that's the whole point of my army. :(

Skink Shaman
He failed just as hard as Tetto but for way fewer points. That's a win!

Thanks for reading!
 
Just gonna start this off by saying i think it's awesome you are doing this battle report thing. Very very cool.

However, with that said i think it's quite sad to see you so disheartened and contemplate "giving up warhammer till 9th" because you've been having a rough time in games...

But I mean, look at your lists. How can you not expect to have a hard time? Most of the games you play are against fairly typical variations of the "net" build for any given race, especially those dark elf lists.

There are solutions that exist that you seem to simply choose not to use because they are "popular." That mindset is fine and awesome, but it only works as long as your expectations are also in line with the conscious choice you are making.

Even with all that said obviously its your choice, your games, your decision, but... I can't help but think if you're more interested in winning perhaps you should build a list thats going to be better at winning.

I guess I just have really been enjoying these bat reps,and it would be a shame to see you forsake warhammer for the rest of the edition because your unique list gets beaten by lists built to win. Better balance among the books units would be nice, but unfortunately its simply not the case. i've liked reading about how the troglodon has been doing.
 
I think you keep doing the wrong match up with your unit.

As i read you play a lot against DE, just spam some AS 1+ or 2+ models in order to pin their WE unit

So what you can try is the next:

Lone Scarvet/Oldblood with cold one, dawnstone & light armour. Youll only face 9 attacks, in the worst case you will have to roll 9 dice on 2+ rerrollable. Keep your cowboy in BSB bubble and you will be fine.

Chief on rypperdactyle with 2+ AS. Lucky Stone. This guy is also good for rearcharging once the WE is engaged. Had serious chance of surviving and still delivering average wounds and CR.

Bastiladon. If supported by General/BSB bubble, he can hold the unit for a round or two. only 150 points.

Any other match ups with Witch Elves are going to fail.

Against DE with those insane rerolls, you should aim higher with the carnosaur, the beast and the rider are killing machines. What you need is to face equal or below number of attacks of the remaining W of the carnosaur in order to get him alive. So if you cannot score against core troops, try to score against their elite. Issua a challenge against the CoK and see if your opponent want to risk their characters.
If he refuses you could send the one who is more dangerous to the last rank, then you can kill the other hero or go for CR against CoK.
If he accept with the champion you are keeping alive your beast and what is more important you are pinning his most powerfull unit. You should be able to win the combat, next round issue another challenge.

Stegadon should never be engaged against WE, they have poison and the whole reroll combo. So you will face a lot of AS rolls so the beast are going to die sooner or later. As told before, aim high and try to wypeout their monster or crush their mage bunker with a successfull charge.

And bring salamanders, they make fine bbq with the elves. edit: didn't read you dont want sallies :P

Edit: With kroxigors you have to see them as glass cannon, they dont have the survavility they seem to have in a first look, and players know this. They are easy points, but if handled correctly they are awesome.
Try always to flankcharge, never face from the front, try to minimize the number of attacks you will receive, cuz always you have to chew some before you can strike.
Its better to have a small frontage, even if you lose one or two stomps you will keep the same number of attacks due to MI support rules (but less PF). And for less the cost of a saurus you can have a champion, so you can challenge if there are any hero that will slaughter your unit on his own. You will only lose one model against it.

By the way I told in some of my post months ago, you can use a Krox dart of 1 column 3 rows. and join 2 cowboys on each side. In combat from the front they could only attack what they have b2b. Meaning the easiest way to do wounds is the Kroxigor champion, so for the first round only 3 wounds. (Also you can challenge with your Kroxigor champion so the close combat can only aim aganst the cowboys)

You will deliver 8 attacks from 2*Scarvets and 6/7 attacks from Kroxigors

And a thing you must remember, you are not playing 100% competitive. You are learning and going with a friendly list that is fun for you and aimed to your likes, not for winning.
You are facing some of the best combo from the DE army, 1 Deathstar and 1 Character bus. That for me sounds competitive and meant for winning.

If you are not getting fun, or at least you want to taste the victory, try some tricks or a different approach.

Wanting to read your next rep ! good luck next battle !
 
I find any monster list should be supported by Heavens.

The signature spell x2 (get 2 skink caddies) will suddenly stand a chance of terroring anything off the table.

Now they might dispel them, well ofcourse they'll try, but they'll be hard-pressed to stop it twice, and even 1 spell off with bloodroar means 3 dice, pick the 2 highest - 1LD.

Now that in itself is not a game changer, but the spell is easier to get off than the one in beasts (7+ vs 13+) and deliver a result that's almost as useful and synergies are high with your list.
 
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