8th Ed. The Path to Awesome - Tracking Every Game Ever

[Sleboda]

Wow - talk about hijacking this thread. I'm looking forward to more reports Sleboda!

=> I'm taking a break, actually. While I am not feeling the misery I had with Tomb Kings, I am a little bothered by recent developments. My army is stagnated, while my opponent's is getting better and better each game. I don't plan to quit, but I do need to step back for a while.

Probably no reports for a month or two.

 

[T_Saurus]

Wow - talk about hijacking this thread. I'm looking forward to more reports Sleboda!

=> I'm taking a break, actually. While I am not feeling the misery I had with Tomb Kings, I am a little bothered by recent developments. My army is stagnated, while my opponent's is getting better and better each game. I don't plan to quit, but I do need to step back for a while.

Probably no reports for a month or two.

Ah man sorry to hear that. For two reasons:

1. I don't like hearing people being frustrated with their armies/the game

2. My brother is working on his Dark Elves

 

[Putzfrau]

if you want to keep taking fluffier lists maybe suggest some house comp with your friends?

ask him to try out some crazier stuff when he plays you?


I'm not sure, just seems like a list geared to be slightly competitive is going to beat a fluffy list pretty regularly. I wouldn't let it discourage you but /shrug. your hobby!

 

[Man0waR]

With my friends I am the most experienced player. Two of my friends play WoC and usually with full of their nasites.

Last game at 2500 points I had to face a Nurgle Daemon Prince; Immortal BSB of Tzeencht on 3W mount; near immortal Sorcerer of Tzeencht on disc; Skull Crushers....

This kind of list are not fun to play with. I know if I play with all the cheap tricks I've learned here and there, I could have beaten his army by just killing his units and keep my own alive. Only giving VP from skinks or 1/2 of my heavy infantry units.

But it was a friendly game and I didn't want to turn the game into a stupid discussion about cheap tricks with the rules that are unknown for them. But I know I have some hidden aces in my hand if this kind of non fun list keeps being deployed over the table.

So what I am trying to say is: If you cannot reach win by playing in a casual way. You have to improve and learn the ways of the "art of skink war" and exploit it as they exploit the nasties whatever are called Walroks; DP; Skullcrushers...

Once you have mastered that kind of play. You'll feel more confident and see how the battle is more driven by your decissions in movement phase than OP underpriced units with awesome special rules / stats.

Keep going.

 

[jgascoine011]

=> I'm taking a break, actually. While I am not feeling the misery I had with Tomb Kings, I am a little bothered by recent developments. My army is stagnated, while my opponent's is getting better and better each game. I don't plan to quit, but I do need to step back for a while.

Probably no reports for a month or two.

And this is why i hated the new lizardmen book.
The release was kind of like the tyranid release in that all the good things go nerfed to bring in line with 8th ed (march and shoot salamanders, immune to warhammer slaan) which i liked. All the medicore things got nerfed (engine of the gods, skrox). All the bottom range things got the tinniest buff (razordons). And finally all the new things sucked (trogladon, bastiladon, rippers).

In the end you end up with a book which has no variation and 90% of the lists play exactly the same way as the old book...but worse.

There are literally no options if you want to do semi-competitve lists other than slaan, skink cloud, temple guard, salamanders, terradons and ancient stegadon. Wow how original.

The dark elves have so many options that you can do fluffy lists while still staying semi-competitve.
I have to hand it to Matt Ward, he did an excellent job with the book. Not breaking any unit but making nearly every single one viable.

 

[Man0waR]

ahhh good lad this Matt Ward...

Unbreakable - Unhittable - Flying - Magic item purchasable (to cover the few chances of killing him) Daemon Princes on WoC.
3+ Ward Save rerolling 1's combo on Tzeencht hero/lord
Filling Core with Heavy Chariots.
Yes ! pretty sense of balance !

This kind of things is what making customers leaving the hobby when they see the army they own are worthless in comparison to the top tier ones. Of course they realised after paying a whole army which is not a small invest.

Sloboda rise against your foes and sacrifice them to Sotek! we lizards still rule our jungle !

 

[Putzfrau]

And this is why i hated the new lizardmen book.
The release was kind of like the tyranid release in that all the good things go nerfed to bring in line with 8th ed (march and shoot salamanders, immune to warhammer slaan) which i liked. All the medicore things got nerfed (engine of the gods, skrox). All the bottom range things got the tinniest buff (razordons). And finally all the new things sucked (trogladon, bastiladon, rippers).

In the end you end up with a book which has no variation and 90% of the lists play exactly the same way as the old book...but worse.

There are literally no options if you want to do semi-competitve lists other than slaan, skink cloud, temple guard, salamanders, terradons and ancient stegadon. Wow how original.

The dark elves have so many options that you can do fluffy lists while still staying semi-competitve.
I have to hand it to Matt Ward, he did an excellent job with the book. Not breaking any unit but making nearly every single one viable.

Except a shooty tyranid list with mass devourers flyrant pew pew flyer is actually pretty nasty. A lot of more experienced tournament players have been making it work. It will turn out to be not so bad, possibly even better then the last book.

/shrug

The lizardmen book is strong in the same way the last book was. Don't give up points and blast stuff with poison and magic. Again, it's kinda boring but I dunno. There are so many ways to play so many comp systems or house rules or verbal agreements you can make.

If you're trying to win tournaments then yeah, your options are super limited. But that's kinda the case with a lot of armies.

 

[GhostWarrior]

Sleboda,

This is my favorite thread on this forum, by far. I respect and understand your frustrations that are coming largely from your regular opponents' build (warlocks in particular). I look forward to seeing more from you, should you return to this army quest.

I'll just say; I think the Lizardmen (non-Slann) are still able to be quite effective, even against an army like that which you have been facing.

It may require that you shake things up a bit (more CO Cowboys, for instance), but I'll leave that for you to discover - when it's fun for ya.

Also - Lizards are still the next army on my list (though I need to wait another month or so to start - due to other tournament paint requirements) - and I'm still taking inspiration from this style of play. No Slann or bust for me! Get ready, 2015!!

 

[jgascoine011]

ahhh good lad this Matt Ward...

Unbreakable - Unhittable - Flying - Magic item purchasable (to cover the few chances of killing him) Daemon Princes on WoC.
3+ Ward Save rerolling 1's combo on Tzeencht hero/lord
Filling Core with Heavy Chariots.
Yes ! pretty sense of balance !

This kind of things is what making customers leaving the hobby when they see the army they own are worthless in comparison to the top tier ones. Of course they realised after paying a whole army which is not a small invest.

Sloboda rise against your foes and sacrifice them to Sotek! we lizards still rule our jungle !

Except matt ward didnt write warriors of chaos, phill kelly or crudance did.
Matt ward wrote the high elves and dark elves.
And do you know what, since the new warriors of chaos book came out I have seem 1000 times more varied woc lists than i have lizardmen

Yea Sleboda i love your bat reps btw, however as soon as i saw you were starting lizardmen i new you were going to be disappointed because they were not going to play the way you (and 90% of the people playing/wanting to plau lizardmen) want lizardmen to play. for example everyone wants to take a carnosaur....but the thing sucks.
What on earth was GW thinking when they put out this book. Sure it can win (although i think in the last 2 big UK tournaments they didnt even get into top 20) but they are soooo boring to play with when you use a list that is good.

It is such a shame because the models are beautiful

 

[Sleboda]

if you want to keep taking fluffier lists maybe suggest some house comp with your friends?

ask him to try out some crazier stuff when he plays you?

=> I appreciate the suggestion, but that's pretty much against everything I believe in when it comes to competition. I would never suggest to any opponent that he downgrade his own army or change the rules of the game just to make it easier on me. I truly mean no offense to anyone out there that does that, but to me, personally, for my own view on how I (me, personally - there - clear enough? ) should play the game, it would really make me feel like a whining complainer who expects the whole game to change just for me.

It's not my opponent's fault that he is better. It's up to me to grow - thus all the variations I have tried. We've even seen some of that, such as moving the general to a Cold One and putting the BSB on the Carnosaur instead, or using javelins instead of blowpipes, or even (sadly) dropping the Troglodon. (boo hiss)

 

[Putzfrau]

if you want to keep taking fluffier lists maybe suggest some house comp with your friends?

ask him to try out some crazier stuff when he plays you?

=> I appreciate the suggestion, but that's pretty much against everything I believe in when it comes to competition. I would never suggest to any opponent that he downgrade his own army or change the rules of the game just to make it easier on me. I truly mean no offense to anyone out there that does that, but to me, personally, for my own view on how I (me, personally - there - clear enough? ) should play the game, it would really make me feel like a whining complainer who expects the whole game to change just for me.

It's not my opponent's fault that he is better. It's up to me to grow - thus all the variations I have tried. We've even seen some of that, such as moving the general to a Cold One and putting the BSB on the Carnosaur instead, or using javelins instead of blowpipes, or even (sadly) dropping the Troglodon. (boo hiss)

I can understand where you are coming from.

It may not be your opponents fault he is better, but your lists are not even comparable.

You would have to be drastically better then him to pull off good results with your list against his.

/shrug. Seems like the alternative is to bring filthier lists which I doubt you like the sound of.

 

[Hilla]

I agree. The way I see it you have three options:

-You either accept the flaws of your chosen path and live with the frustration (man up princess )
-or you go competitive (Slann, Salamanders, Dispell Scroll)
-or you ask your opponents for adjustments

There is a theoretical fourth option: You stop playing Lizardmen and most importantly stop writing these reports, than we will find out where you live and pay you a visit (please dont pick fourth)

 

[Sleboda]

You either accept the flaws of your chosen path and live with the frustration (man up princess )

Don't worry, I won't take option #4. I'll go with #1 (after a break). To quote my initial post in this thread -

I still want to have fun, and I still want to win every game I can, but I am not going to let that pursuit of the win eliminate certain models or dictate my army composition. If I want a Troglodon then gosh darn it, I'm taking one (half done assembling my first one right now)! It's going to be up to me (with your help!) to make the wins come despite using suboptimal stuff.

Man, though, it's been rough.

 

[lizard_sNow]

Hi sleboda, I was wondering if the list you took this last game against DE was the same one you took for the HE game as well? I am looking to add rippers and was wondering if you used them in your DE game. I also have a regular opponent in DE and the warlocks haven't been too much of a bother to me, though my opponent hasn't really taken more than 5 anyways, which means he might catch on sooner or later to their effectiveness, and I want a counter to them. I am just wondering if your cowboy (which I am in love with) would be an effective counter to them? I feel our cowboys are the best answer for those more elite chaff like the warlocks. Also, your reports are really great and have a nice narrative of your battles. Keep them coming. Thank you for sticking with it.

 

[T_Saurus]

Hi sleboda, I was wondering if the list you took this last game against DE was the same one you took for the HE game as well? I am looking to add rippers and was wondering if you used them in your DE game. I also have a regular opponent in DE and the warlocks haven't been too much of a bother to me, though my opponent hasn't really taken more than 5 anyways, which means he might catch on sooner or later to their effectiveness, and I want a counter to them. I am just wondering if your cowboy (which I am in love with) would be an effective counter to them? I feel our cowboys are the best answer for those more elite chaff like the warlocks. Also, your reports are really great and have a nice narrative of your battles. Keep them coming. Thank you for sticking with it.

Yeah assuming that you can get the Cowboy there he should do quite well against the Locks. (The cowboy I was looking at was simply the Cold One, GW, Armor of Destiny.

He should take practically no damage from the Warlocks in combat with or without soulblight and do back a wound (1.3) back. He is pretty durable against a Doombolt too on average taking (.58) wound per cast.

 

[heuningby]

I respect your choice in not picking super competitive lists but...

Why don't you think of your army as a car...

The more badass your army is, the more horse power you will have. Limiting your horse power to 200 means that even if you are a very good driver (general), you will still probably lose a drag race against a 500 horse power car with an average driver.

To be competitive against even average players you have 2 options as stated previously:
Either up your horse power or
Change the track to be more technical where your car might be able to do better as a result of handling etc. (In other words, House rules)

You said you don't want to implement either of the 2 so then unfortunately it will always be this rough and more future losses should be expected.

P.S having a more badass army does not prevent you from needing to think strategically and tactically. You still need to adapt and improve with each game if you go up against tougher opponents.

Happy gaming
heuningby

 

[jgascoine011]

I am with you on comp system sleboda, i am totally 100% against them.
However lizardmen are not the army they once were and also the meta has changed alot from having big units of hordes to now having small units with good armour saves.

Lizardmen are never going to beat warriors when they are using nurgle daemon prince with skull crushers, nurgle knights etc . Or empire with the demigryph 1+ AS knight duel banishment list. Or dwarves or duel frost phoenix with silver helm list. I could go on but i think you get the picture.

All other armies have some mice cheesy units or combos to pick from. Sure if your high elf player is kind enough to turn up with blocks of spearmen then you will have a field day. But they dont. And lizardmen have 0 counter to these lists. They have made lizardmen so balanced that they have become weak. I have not seen 1 lizardmen player come top 20 in any major tournament.

So in short. Have you thought of starting a new army?
You always seem to play a very weak army and then complain when you get beat and have no means of improving. This was even worse with taking the trogladon, rippers and kroxigors...seriously they suck. Stop listening to all these 12 year olds on this forum telling you that they do well for them or you just need to know how to use them. No they suck, pure and simple.
In case you haven't noticed the new dwarfs are amazing, although it might cost you a fair bit of money to get going. They will however crush you dark elf opponent by turn 2 or 3, no matter what broken combo he can come up with.

Or just wait 1 month for wood elves.

 

[GCPD]

I'm late to this party, having only just started reading this thread, but it is indeed sad to see someone new to Lizardmen start out with such high hopes - only to quickly get so disillusioned. Its even worse to see that person also identify the major failings with the book so quickly.

And maybe its bias, because my second army is Dark Elves, but for all their re-rolls and Warlock shenanigans, I don't think they cause Lizardmen nearly as many problems as Warriors of Chaos do.

 

[Putzfrau]

I'm late to this party, having only just started reading this thread, but it is indeed sad to see someone new to Lizardmen start out with such high hopes - only to quickly get so disillusioned. Its even worse to see that person also identify the major failings with the book so quickly.

And maybe its bias, because my second army is Dark Elves, but for all their re-rolls and Warlock shenanigans, I don't think they cause Lizardmen nearly as many problems as Warriors of Chaos do.

I agree

 

[Prof]

So in short. Have you thought of starting a new army?
You always seem to play a very weak army and then complain when you get beat and have no means of improving. This was even worse with taking the trogladon, rippers and kroxigors...seriously they suck. Stop listening to all these 12 year olds on this forum telling you that they do well for them or you just need to know how to use them. No they suck, pure and simple.

A bit harsh on everyone who's tried to help and encourage throughout this thread, don't you think?
I'm all for giving your view but theirs no need to belittle everyone on the forum