AoS What wacky new stuff could they add to seraphon?

[Jason839]

Giving out mortal wounds like candy is ok, but having to build an army around buffing your units and stacking the buffs is bad. I never understand how gw tries to balance games. Their logic never makes sense.

 

[Canas]

Giving out mortal wounds like candy is ok, but having to build an army around buffing your units and stacking the buffs is bad. I never understand how gw tries to balance games. Their logic never makes sense.

it'd be interesting to know their design philosophies, do they never give Q & A's about this sorta stuff?

 

[Lord-Marcus]

Hey guys. How about A stegadon with a small temple to Sotek on it's back?

 

[Canas]

Hey guys. How about A stegadon with a small temple to Sotek on it's back?

what'd it do though? We already have an EoTG for moving buffshrine thingy and an ark on sotek for moving attack aura thingy.

 

[Koriialstraz]

If they did add anything maybe a coatl.

Not sure how it could be used in gameplay, but I would LOVE a brontosaurus type model. Big long necked thunder lizard.

I just read a little more about the Seraphon, and I would love to see this 2 monsters become units for us

 

[ILKAIN]

what if Guard were buffed to 2 wounds each? I understand every one thinks of them as defensive, but with a warden nearby in eternal starhost they get 12 brave base, 3 attacks (4 alpha), d3 damage the second round of combat and saves on 2+... the two wounds would definitely make them far more viable for aggressive tactics and fit the "heavy Infantry" position that we currently don't have filled.

 

[Canas]

what if Guard were buffed to 2 wounds each? I understand every one thinks of them as defensive, but with a warden nearby in eternal starhost they get 12 brave base, 3 attacks (4 alpha), d3 damage the second round of combat and saves on 2+... the two wounds would definitely make them far more viable for aggressive tactics and fit the "heavy Infantry" position that we currently don't have filled.

2 wounds is the bare minimum they need to actually be a "good" unit. As opposed to their current weird state where theý're borderline immortal to normal damage but drop like flies to mortal wounds.

 

[ILKAIN]

2 wounds is the bare minimum they need to actually be a "good" unit. As opposed to their current weird state where theý're borderline immortal to normal damage but drop like flies to mortal wounds.

well every one else is discussing 140 pt 3 model units and things like that.... I figured when you actually make balancing changes to a game you don't really want to rewrite more than you have to.... so you make a small change and playtest it. its not exactly crazy or whacky but it is something that would be feasible to see in future GH updates. at least I would think so

 

[Canas]

well every one else is discussing 140 pt 3 model units and things like that.... I figured when you actually make balancing changes to a game you don't really want to rewrite more than you have to.... so you make a small change and playtest it. its not exactly crazy or whacky but it is something that would be feasible to see in future GH updates. at least I would think so

yeah, the last bit has focussed on those as we're severly lacking in that department and it's the easiest bit for new stuff. Saurus guards have been mentioned somewhere in this thread though.

Similarly other "small" chances and issues like chameleon skinks having meh stats, all our basic battleline being horde-based and only usefull as fodder when fielded outside a horde, the lack of a faction spell lore, the lack of prayers, our saurus heroes having all their supporting power stuck in their command ability & the unmounted ones being generally underwhelming stat-wise, our skink heroes being useless in an actual fight and thus requiring constant babysitting, our (over)reliance on synergy & key-units alongside how difficult it is to actually get and maintain key-units/battalions etc. due to the associated cost and opponents sniping them, th rule of one breaking several of our cool things, rule of one breaking a wizard based army, the EoTG lacking a clear purpose and having an effect that's almost Always unuseable, & the issues with summoning have been mentioned. I think that covers everything for existing stuff that's been mentioned

 

[Carnikang]

I haven't read through the thread, but I'll address the main question posed.

I just want a gigantic Sauropod. One that can literally stomp a Stardrake's skull in, and give the Dread Saurian a run for it's money in the 'biggest dino' category. Slap a temple to the Old Ones on it, and have it hand out buffs each hero phase, or give it a solar focusing battery to throw multiple solar beams. Gods above, would I love that.

And with talk of the sea elves getting a whale later on in the year/next year.....

 

[claymore36]

Did anyone see the sumpkrok for necromunda? Something like that would be great for new saurus cavalry.

 

[ILKAIN]

I haven't read through the thread, but I'll address the main question posed.

I just want a gigantic Sauropod. One that can literally stomp a Stardrake's skull in, and give the Dread Saurian a run for it's money in the 'biggest dino' category. Slap a temple to the Old Ones on it, and have it hand out buffs each hero phase, or give it a solar focusing battery to throw multiple solar beams. Gods above, would I love that.

And with talk of the sea elves getting a whale later on in the year/next year.....

the Thunder lizard from the lore!!

 

[ILKAIN]

Id rather have it as a mid ranged armoured transport sort of thing. if we are going crazy....

20 wounds, wounds table movement, save on table, 10 brave.

ranged weapons options:

2 smaller solar rays similar to the basti, but mounted on either side of its head and only dong 3 shots each (6 total) for 18" 3+H/4+W -1R 1D, 2D if chaos daemons.

second ranged would be two half howdahs on either side of the body, with skinks throwing standard metoric spears (8 Total shots at standard stats) but also one on each side mounting a "salamander gullet cannon" 10" 1D6 shots (each) 2+H/4+W (this weapon’s hit and wound rolls cant be modified, 4+wound roll = 1MW).

Melee attacks would Be:

"Whip like tail" 3" make an attack for every enemy unit in range, 5+/4+ no rend 2 damage,

"Heavy stomp" 2" 2 attacks 4+/2+ no rend 3 damage.

Abilities:

“Ponderous bulk":
This unit cannot run or charge. This unit can not be removed and set back up using “Lords of Space and Time”. Additionally it ignores wounds inflicted at zero rend.

"Heavy transport":
this unit can be set up with up to 20 wounds of any friendly battleline units at the start of the game (if its summoned it does not have any troops in transport) that can disembark at the end of any movement phase. (this counts as those units/models move for this turn) they must be set up wholly within 3" of this unit, any models that cannot are slain. models with in 3" may embark instead of moving if they are wholly within 3" at the start of the move phase. (units may not embark and disembark in the same movement phase.

All Seraphon wizards know the spell summon thunder lizard it has a casting value of 11.

Table:
0-5 wounds: move 8”, save 3+, transport limit 20W
6-10 wounds: move 6” save 4+, transport limit 15W
11-15 wounds: move 4” save 5+, transport limit 10W
15+ wounds: move 4” save 5+, transport limit 0W


Tags: order, celestial, daemon, Seraphon, monster, skink, thunder lizard

 

[Canas]

Id rather have it as a mid ranged armoured transport sort of thing. if we are going crazy....

20 wounds, wounds table movement, save on table, 10 brave.

ranged weapons options:

2 smaller solar rays similar to the basti, but mounted on either side of its head and only dong 3 shots each (6 total) for 18" 3+H/4+W -1R 1D, 2D if chaos daemons.

second ranged would be two half howdahs on either side of the body, with skinks throwing standard metoric spears (8 Total shots at standard stats) but also one on each side mounting a "salamander gullet cannon" 10" 1D6 shots (each) 2+H/4+W (this weapon’s hit and wound rolls cant be modified, 4+wound roll = 1MW).

Melee attacks would Be:

"Whip like tail" 3" make an attack for every enemy unit in range, 5+/4+ no rend 2 damage,

"Heavy stomp" 2" 2 attacks 4+/2+ no rend 3 damage.

Abilities:

“Ponderous bulk":
This unit cannot run or charge. additionally it ignores wounds inflicted at zero rend.

"Heavy transport":
this unit can be set up with up to 20 wounds of any friendly battleline units at the start of the game (if its summoned it does not have any troops in transport) that can disembark at the end of any movement phase. (this counts as those units/models move for this turn) they must be set up wholly within 3" of this unit, any models that cannot are slain. models with in 3" may embark instead of moving if they are wholly within 3" at the start of the move phase. (units may not embark and disembark in the same movement phase.

All Seraphon wizards know the spell summon thunder lizard it has a casting value of 11.

Table:
0-5 wounds: move 8”, save 3+, transport limit 20W
6-10 wounds: move 6” save 4+, transport limit 15W
11-15 wounds: move 4” save 5+, transport limit 10W
15+ wounds: move 4” save 5+, transport limit 0W


Tags: order, celestial, daemon, Seraphon, monster, skink, thunder lizard

Slaying the ones that can't get out seems a tad harsh, also a 3" radious is perhaps a tad small, too easy to block disembarking seeing as it's supposed to dump people into combat. Make it 4" and allow the unit to slowly pour out, possibly even going as far as allowing them to disembark in combat when its their turn to pile in, as many as possible disembar and join the fight, the others follow as soon as there is space because friend or foe are killed. To be honest, a trasport that releases the models into direct combat sees really cool now that I think about it instead of focing them to do it in the movement phase, especially as it allows you to counter an enemy charging the transport.

Also, your slamander gun as a 4+ wound, and does a mortal wound on the 4+, so it Always does mortal wounds? That seems, eh powerfull for a transport, though I suppose it could work.

I think it's overal damage output is far too heavy for a transport. Though I like how horrificly sturdy it is, the only thing missing is a heal.

I don't think you should put the save stat on a table, at least not on a diminishing one. This way the more wounded it gets the easier it becomes to get the next wound which will quickly cause a spiral and will probably mean it goes down rapidly ones it's actually been hit, especially considering it already is a prime target for rend attacks due to its ponderous bulk rules. Basicly from 10+ wounds onward it no longer has a save stat unless buffed, that's harsh. Furthermore, rend-attacks tend to also be the on the heavy 2+ damage kinda stuff. It'l go down way too quickly like that.

I'd say do the followin: Ignores modifiers to its save characteristic & ignores damage dealt by attacks with no rend (or that aren't mortal wounds). That way rend won't end up completly ripping it apart but actually still has to put in some effort.

 

[ILKAIN]

Slaying the ones that can't get out seems a tad harsh, also a 3" radious is perhaps a tad small, too easy to block disembarking seeing as it's supposed to dump people into combat. Make it 4" and allow the unit to slowly pour out, possibly even going as far as allowing them to disembark in combat when its their turn to pile in, as many as possible disembar and join the fight, the others follow as soon as there is space because friend or foe are killed. To be honest, a trasport that releases the models into direct combat sees really cool now that I think about it instead of focing them to do it in the movement phase, especially as it allows you to counter an enemy charging the transport.

Also, your slamander gun as a 4+ wound, and does a mortal wound on the 4+, so it Always does mortal wounds? That seems, eh powerfull for a transport, though I suppose it could work.

I think it's overal damage output is far too heavy for a transport. Though I like how horrificly sturdy it is, the only thing missing is a heal.

I don't think you should put the save stat on a table, at least not on a diminishing one. This way the more wounded it gets the easier it becomes to get the next wound which will quickly cause a spiral and will probably mean it goes down rapidly ones it's actually been hit, especially considering it already is a prime target for rend attacks due to its ponderous bulk rules. Basicly from 10+ wounds onward it no longer has a save stat unless buffed, that's harsh. Furthermore, rend-attacks tend to also be the on the heavy 2+ damage kinda stuff. It'l go down way too quickly like that.

I'd say do the followin: Ignores modifiers to its save characteristic & ignores damage dealt by attacks with no rend (or that aren't mortal wounds). That way rend won't end up completly ripping it apart but actually still has to put in some effort.

I come from the 40k world lol. Those units failing to disembark and being slain is the standard rule there to entice counterplay. Also this would be a larger model and you can disembark in any direction.

The salamander gun is designed to be a flamethrower. Didn’t want it to auto hit like it does in 40k, but I wanted it to inflict mortal wounds when it got through cuz salamander fire melts everything lol. (These mortal wounds are not in addition to normal wounds... it only does mortal wounds)

The design is that it’s supposed to be pressed into service, the lore of the thunder lizards is that they aren’t controlled by the Slann... they can’t. So basically the more hurt it gets the harder it is to control, until finally it “leaves” the battle field cuz the Slann can no longer direct it.

I’m thinking of this being a 500 point model, so it’s not like your not paying for the stats lol.

I can see what your saying about the diminishing save.. but I am picturing this massive sarupod with gashes and blood flowing in waves as it gets ripped into... it’s not relying on scales or armour for its protection, but rather it’s massive wound count and it’s sheer mass... and as you rip that mass away there’s less to protect it. Also I explained it poorly in the original post but this mode is immune to mortal wounds... they don’t have Rend!

Thanks for the input I appreciate it.

 

[Canas]

I come from the 40k world lol. Those units failing to disembark and being slain is the standard rule there to entice counterplay. Also this would be a larger model and you can disembark in any direction.

Meh, I'm fine with it happening when the transport dies (provided there's a chance for the embarked troops to escape). But doing it on a normal disembark feels weird. The fact that they can't all get out should already be enough to entice counterplay to be honest.

The salamander gun is designed to be a flamethrower. Didn’t want it to auto hit like it does in 40k, but I wanted it to inflict mortal wounds when it got through cuz salamander fire melts everything lol. (These mortal wounds are not in addition to normal wounds... it only does mortal wounds)

The design is that it’s supposed to be pressed into service, the lore of the thunder lizards is that they aren’t controlled by the Slann... they can’t. So basically the more hurt it gets the harder it is to control, until finally it “leaves” the battle field cuz the Slann can no longer direct it.

I’m thinking of this being a 500 point model, so it’s not like your not paying for the stats lol.

I'm sure you pay for the stats, just seems much for a transport. Hell, I'd barely use it as a transport I'd just use it as a tank or artillery platform.

I can see what your saying about the diminishing save.. but I am picturing this massive sarupod with gashes and blood flowing in waves as it gets ripped into... it’s not relying on scales or armour for its protection, but rather it’s massive wound count and it’s sheer mass... and as you rip that mass away there’s less to protect it. Also I explained it poorly in the original post but this mode is immune to mortal wounds... they don’t have Rend!

Thanks for the input I appreciate it.

Right, the protection against mortal wounds definitly helps. But rend attacks against it are going to be terrifyingly effective. On the one hand your opponent is aready going to throw all his rend at it as it's a big damaging monster that only gets hurt with rend, on the other hand it's save gets worse and worse . With that combi'ned it'l very rapidly get into a position where it no longer has a save. You should also make the save unmodifiable, then tend wouldn't just flat out rip through it though you retain the weakening effect.

 

[ILKAIN]

I feel like that would be too strong.

 

[pendrake]

And with talk of the sea elves getting a whale later on in the year/next year.....

Are you serious..? A flying WHALE?

 

[pendrake]

Ancient Bastilodon

This would be an officially sanctioned conversion from the standard Bastilodon kit.

• It would be slower than the standard Basti (...because it is Old).
• Its armor scales would be double-thick (way better Armor Save, Resistance to Rend, Negation of Mortal Wounds, and such-like). (...because the scales thicken with Age.)
• It’s use would be to accompany Saurus Infantry.
• In combat it will always turn tail, but instead of running, it starts smashing stuff with its humongous clubbed tail (...which is bigger now that it is Old).
• Damage from the tail is comparable to clubs wielded by giants.
• There is a howdah (needs to be scratch built) filled with Skink shooters. They can freely fire into the melee below. (Tall Howdah rule, we’ll call it.)

 

[Christopher]

(Tall Howdah rule, we’ll call it.)

High Howdah. Hidey-ho Howdah. Howdy Hi. Ho Ho Howdah..

But seriously, what would you point this super-beastie out at?