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8th Ed. Hellcannon Rules

Lizards of Renown
Slann

Lizards of Renown

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Right, I think that I have found a MASSIVE point on the effectiveness of the Hellcannon and having checked all rules several times over, I'm pretty sure I'm right but would appreciate any input:

In the Hellcannon Rules, it states that it has to take a leadership test every turn and if it fails it has to turn to face the closest enemy unit and then move 3D6 inches towards it.

It is cited as troop type "Monster" with the "Monster and Handlers" special rule.

It has a leadership of 4. The Chaos Dwarf Handlers have a leadership of 9.

I checked the BRB and under leadership tests it says you use the highest leadership "of the unit".

Under "Monsters and Handlers" it states, "The handlers aren't really a combat unit per se, so we ignore them for most gaming purposes, treating the monster itself as the extent of the unit."

Based on the above, the Hellcannon (as a Monster) would take the leadership test on its own leadership of 4 and if it fails it would swivel to face the closest enemy troops and then move 3D6 based on the Random Movement.

I.E. It can't shoot unless it passes a leadership test on leadership 4.

@NIGHTBRINGER @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl @Scalenex @ASSASSIN_NR_1 @Imrahil @airjamy

What do you reckon? I keep looking at it and can't see any flaws in my reasoning, but I think I might be too caught up in it...

Obviously the thing is still pretty flipping dangerous it it gets into combat, but this would take out it's god-like unit status in my opinion.

Cheers.
 
Lizards of Renown said:
How do I get the PDF of the FAQ's?
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https://eefl.freeforums.net/thread/129/wfb-edition-official-faqs-download

Lizards of Renown said:
WoC are ridiculous.
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Bend the knee to the might of Chaos!

Lizards of Renown said:
And am I missing something or is the only way to kill the handlers by a) misfire result or b) rolling 5-6 when the Hellcannon suffers a wound (after it's T6, 4+, 5++) ?(sigh)
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I believe you are correct.

Obviously if the hellcannon dies, the handlers are immediately removed as well.
 
Okay, just had an idea... Check this out:

The Hellcannon has the rule "Move or Fire" in this rule it states that it also applies if the unit with this rule has been moved by magic or other reasons.

If you cast Wind Blast from the Lore of Heavens on the Hellcannon, it shouldn't be able to fire in its next phase.

@NIGHTBRINGER @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl @Scalenex @ASSASSIN_NR_1 @airjamy @Carnikang @ChapterAquila92 @Imrahil @Paradoxical Pacifism

Thoughts?

If I can build a general consensus on something I've come up with as tactics for the Hellcannon on LO then I will go over with my friend as a rule to apply when we next play.

(I will still try out my tactic of Skink Hero on Terradon, glittering scales, relic blade and dragon helm to see if I can tie up a Hellcannon for a few turns. This would make the Hellcannon 5+ to hit me and I would still have a 4+ armour save after deductions for strength so it's an idea)
 
Well, the idea is nice, but doesn't work as far as I know, since 'Move or Fire' only triggers if the Hellcannon moved earlier in the turn. Since 'Wind Blast' would only move it in your turn, it will not have moved in its own turn, thus it can still shoot.
 
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ASSASSIN_NR_1 said:
Well, the idea is nice, but doesn't work as far as I know, since 'Move or Fire' only triggers if the Hellcannon moved earlier in the turn. Since 'Wind Blast' would only move it in your turn, it will not have moved in its own turn, thus it can still shoot.
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via Imgflip Meme Generator

Lizards of Renown said:
And am I missing something or is the only way to kill the handlers by a) misfire result or b) rolling 5-6 when the Hellcannon suffers a wound (after it's T6, 4+, 5++) ?(sigh)
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You could theoretically target the individual models with the Lore of Death, but in most cases you are far better off casting Spirit Leech on the Hellcannon itself.

Lizards of Renown said:
(I will still try out my tactic of Skink Hero on Terradon, glittering scales, relic blade and dragon helm to see if I can tie up a Hellcannon for a few turns. This would make the Hellcannon 5+ to hit me and I would still have a 4+ armour save after deductions for strength so it's an idea)
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I enjoying seeing unorthodox tactics, and it truth I am happier when an unorthodox plan is a marginal success than when a tried and true tactic is a smashing success. That said, most unorthodox tactics I try are failures.
 
ASSASSIN_NR_1 said:
Well, the idea is nice, but doesn't work as far as I know, since 'Move or Fire' only triggers if the Hellcannon moved earlier in the turn. Since 'Wind Blast' would only move it in your turn, it will not have moved in its own turn, thus it can still shoot.
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Blast. Fair enough.
 
Scalenex said:
via Imgflip Meme Generator



You could theoretically target the individual models with the Lore of Death, but in most cases you are far better off casting Spirit Leech on the Hellcannon itself.



I enjoying seeing unorthodox tactics, and it truth I am happier when an unorthodox plan is a marginal success than when a tried and true tactic is a smashing success. That said, most unorthodox tactics I try are failures.
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Casting Spirit Leech on Hellcannon is a flipping great idea!!! It's only Leadership 4!!! Thanks!

Yes, I'm kind of part-time amusing myself with coming up with wild theories (as you may have observed on this thread) for fighting Chaos. I'm looking fowards to trying out the crazier ones.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
Interesting, though I'm not sure that it works like that.
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The Lord giveth... and the Lord taketh away...

You mean it should be the handlers leadership?

Doesn't really fit with the concept of the spell attacking the actual Hellcannon though.
 
I would argue that since the spell says you target "the model" and use it's "unmodified Leadership" that it would test on Ld4. That's how I've played it before.

Note, most opponents dispel my Spirit Leech spells with prejudice, but it's better than nothing.
 
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Lizards of Renown said:
You mean it should be the handlers leadership?

Doesn't really fit with the concept of the spell attacking the actual Hellcannon though.
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First, let me just say that I am not entirely sure. I'm just speculating. However, since the crew can't be targeted separately, I view the Hellcannon and crew as essentially a single entity (sort of like a Stegadon and its Skink crew, with the caveat that misfires can remove the crew, and unsaved woulds are randomized 1-4 and 5-6). Then, as per the faq, you would use the highest available leadership, which in this case is the Chaos Dwarf crew's leadership of 9.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
First, let me just say that I am not entirely sure. I'm just speculating. However, since the crew can't be targeted separately, I view the Hellcannon and crew as essentially a single entity (sort of like a Stegadon and its Skink crew, with the caveat that misfires can remove the crew, and unsaved woulds are randomized 1-4 and 5-6). Then, as per the faq, you would use the highest available leadership, which in this case is the Chaos Dwarf crew's leadership of 9.
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I think possibly the key to this is the fact that the Spirit Leech spell targets a "single enemy model (even a character in a unit)" and then "add their unmodified leadership values".

If unit had a champion, they would be able to use that models leadership but it would be a MODIFIED leadership figure.

Same with the Monster it seems to me, in relation to the handlers.

The spell is targeting that model and attempting to draw the life from it, not from the handlers.
 
Lizards of Renown said:
I think possibly the key to this is the fact that the Spirit Leech spell targets a "single enemy model (even a character in a unit)" and then "add their unmodified leadership values".
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That's the thing, the crew aren't single models. They are part of the Hellcannon model, just like the Stegadon and its howdah skinks. A champion or a character can be sniped and they can be directly targeted if within base-to-base contact; the hellcannon crew cannot be. As such, when the hellcannon is targeted by Spirit Leech, the FAQ ruling comes into play. At least that's the way I see it.
 
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