AoS NEW *rumor*

[samheim]

no no we are masters of positioning and board placement teleports are awesome like that and we have the best chaf unit in the game

Nobody is drawn to collecting Seraphon so they can play a horde of Skinks!

When I showed the person I am collecting for to choose the next models, it was the Steggadon and Carnosaur, Krokigors that drew the most interest.
Skinks didn't even get noticed.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Nobody is drawn to collecting Seraphon so they can play a horde of Skinks!

When I showed the person I am collecting for to choose the next models, it was the Steggadon and Carnosaur, Krokigors that drew the most interest.
Skinks didn't even get noticed.

that is fair but not what you claimed we do have places we excel
as for the broken cities book yeeeees but no more then the rest of the stuff that has come out recently and it has a lot of down sides the artillery is a joke. most of the eleat units are currently over priced by 20 points or so. half the army is very slow and they have no movement abilities to make up for it. with the exception of the general on griffon and tanks the behemoths are on the low end of ok.
they excel at magic and to hit bonuses with a few stand out powerhouses in the mage wagons it is very powerful but ultimately something people can deal with i see no terrorgysts

 

[ILKAIN]

but our spells are also balanced with our faction abilities. LIsten, I agree, we are suffering fromt eh power creep that has occurred, but if you account for that we are not bad off... and neither are our spells/abilities. yes they could use some optimization... but you know anyone else that is fielding 3 dread saurian equivalents for the price of 1 in a game? or another army that can literally put an additional (FREE!!) 1500 points on the table in a 2000 point game? I don't.

I understand the frustration, I really do... but we must temper it with the understanding that while our book is old, (read as literally no reason to purchase at this point) we need 3 faq's and errata's, and the GHB to play, WE ARE STILL WINNING. WE ARE STILL SELLING. That gets noticed by GW. It frustrates us to all hell see all the other kids get the new awesome toys, but look at it like affirmative action (for the love of god no one get offended by this is about to be a social commentary not a joke) lizards don't need the help to win... the lessor warmbloods do

 

[Erta Wanderer]

but our spells are also balanced with our faction abilities.

no no they are not we have a spell that heals 1 damage that is a waist of a spell in any army and the re-roll 1s to hit's is three types of redundant with our faction abilities

LIsten, I agree, we are suffering from eh power creep that has occurred, but if you account for that we are not bad off... and neither are our spells/abilities. yes they could use some optimization... but you know anyone else that is fielding 3 dread saurian equivalents for the price of 1 in a game?

not shur what you meen by 3 for the price of 1 if you meen that our bahemoths are cheep thats not a good thing they are cheep becous they are week and profile badly.

or another army that can literally put an additional (FREE!!) 1500 points on the table in a 2000 point game? I don't.

slanesh can do it on turn 2 and most death armies can if they run large units. also it's not free it costs us 440 points(slann star priest balewind cogs) to put it on the table points that we have to play down until we summon in replacements.

I understand the frustration, I really do... but we must temper it with the understanding that while our book is old, (read as literally no reason to purchase at this point) we need 3 faq's and errata's, and the GHB to play, WE ARE STILL WINNING. WE ARE STILL SELLING.

with the cities armies rapt up into one book and iron jaws getting buffed we rank 21 out of 29 for win rates from the turnament cerkit last year and we got beeten out by standerd order chaos and 2 other armies that didn't have battle tomes

That gets noticed by GW. It frustrates us to all hell see all the other kids get the new awesome toys, but look at it like affirmative action (for the love of god no one get offended by this is about to be a social commentary not a joke) lizards don't need the help to win... the lessor warmbloods do

we really do need the help and the spells could have been that help instead nothing and we get major nerfs in the same book it came in so ya GW skrewed the pooch on this one.

 

[Canas]

but you know anyone else that is fielding 3 dread saurian equivalents for the price of 1 in a game? or another army that can literally put an additional (FREE!!) 1500 points on the table in a 2000 point game? I don't.

Slaanesh. And they do it better and quicker as well.

I understand the frustration, I really do... but we must temper it with the understanding that while our book is old, (read as literally no reason to purchase at this point) we need 3 faq's and errata's, and the GHB to play, WE ARE STILL WINNING. WE ARE STILL SELLING.

That doesn't matter. Or at least, not in this context. And is a great example of why things like winrates are fairly useless when determining the health of a faction/unit/whatever. We require half a library to have all our rules, we have several units who've basicly been completly rewritten, our spells are mostly useless with 1 or 2 exceptions (which are only average, but at least usefull), we still don't have prayers, mount traits subfactions like the Cities of Sigmar cities or Fyreslayer lodges or any other of the cool new stuff updated factions have, our summoning mechanic is terrible as a game mechanic (no interaction & only works if we sacrifice the 1 thing a slann is actually supposed to be good for), our artifacts are terrible with most of our lists revolving around realm artifacts, we only have 1 viable general, despite having 3 different (sub)races with their own traits to be generals. A good chunk of our stuff is massivly underpowered. At this point we're basicly a patchwork of an army that's falling apart only held together by the 1 or 2 mechanics we have that are halfway decent and we end up massivly relying on those mechanics and abusing every single advantage we can get via them to remain something resemblinh competitive. That's not healthy for the faction in the long run.

 

[samheim]

Look which ever way you slice the pie. Lets pretend this is a metaphorical pie of lies about Seraphons.

The first slice of the pie would be that, Saurus, Temple Guard etc are viable. They are not. 1 wound for an armoured lizard when Blood warrior gets 2?

All of Seraphon should be strong. Shooting, fighting, magic and placement. But it should be pointed accordingly. That Seraphon are forced into Slann mage + skinks, is sad.

 

[Random Lizard]

Slaanesh. And they do it better and quicker as well.



That doesn't matter. Or at least, not in this context. And is a great example of why things like winrates are fairly useless when determining the health of a faction/unit/whatever. We require half a library to have all our rules, we have several units who've basicly been completly rewritten, our spells are mostly useless with 1 or 2 exceptions (which are only average, but at least usefull), we still don't have prayers, mount traits subfactions like the Cities of Sigmar cities or Fyreslayer lodges or any other of the cool new stuff updated factions have, our summoning mechanic is terrible as a game mechanic (no interaction & only works if we sacrifice the 1 thing a slann is actually supposed to be good for), our artifacts are terrible with most of our lists revolving around realm artifacts, we only have 1 viable general, despite having 3 different (sub)races with their own traits to be generals. A good chunk of our stuff is massivly underpowered. At this point we're basicly a patchwork of an army that's falling apart only held together by the 1 or 2 mechanics we have that are halfway decent and we end up massivly relying on those mechanics and abusing every single advantage we can get via them to remain something resemblinh competitive. That's not healthy for the faction in the long run.

Most summoning factions don't require to pay points up front to get said summoning and/or the whole mechanic isn't thrown out the window if a specific model gets sniped.

As i usually say to my friends who think seraphon are broken as hell whenever i use a decent ability, our warscrolls are amongst the worst in the game (skink starseer is a joke at this point), we don't have much allegiance abilities except for summoning and teleport, our artefacts are laughable (as are most our command traits), but our mobility is amongst the best which might provide a win once a month (my playgroup is mostly powerplayers)

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Most summoning factions don't require to pay points up front to get said summoning and/or the whole mechanic isn't thrown out the window if a specific model gets sniped.

most summoning also doesn't make you give up key game macanics like casting to summon

 

[samheim]

Most summoning factions don't require to pay points up front to get said summoning and/or the whole mechanic isn't thrown out the window if a specific model gets sniped.

As i usually say to my friends who think seraphon are broken as hell whenever i use a decent ability, our warscrolls are amongst the worst in the game (skink starseer is a joke at this point), we don't have much allegiance abilities except for summoning and teleport, our artefacts are laughable (as are most our command traits), but our mobility is amongst the best which might provide a win once a month (my playgroup is mostly powerplayers)

Was really disappointed with the Skink Star Seer, I thought all the Skink Priests were pretty crap as well. Yes they are cheap, but they still use up a character slot. The Old Blood is straight garbage and can be killed off easily by battle line troops in one round.

The Scar Veteran on cold one is ok with the re-roll charge and hit buffs.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Was really disappointed with the Skink Star Seer, I thought all the Skink Priests were pretty crap as well. Yes they are cheap, but they still use up a character slot. The Old Blood is straight garbage and can be killed off easily by battle line troops in one round.

The Scar Veteran on cold one is ok with the re-roll charge and hit buffs.

star seer used to be amasing then they took away his toys and star priest has one of the best buffs in the game -1 to be hit is really good

 

[samheim]

star seer used to be amasing then they took away his toys and star priest has one of the best buffs in the game -1 to be hit is really good

My bad yes the Star Priest is good with the Venom staff. My gripe is Seraphon have nothing that kills anything anywhere in the whole army. Its all buffs on sub mediocre troops or movement stuff.

The Carnosaur is awful. I will say the Steggadon looks pretty interesting though. With the stomp attacks. How does he work out in play?

 

[Erta Wanderer]

My bad yes the Star Priest is good with the Venom staff. My gripe is Seraphon have nothing that kills anything anywhere in the whole army. Its all buffs on sub mediocre troops or movement stuff.

The Carnosaur is awful. I will say the Steggadon looks pretty interesting though. With the stomp attacks. How does he work out in plat?

razordons and ripperdactles can kill stuff but we can only take 12 of the former and the latter only workes next to a toad. Plat? engien of the gods is our best behemoth the 24" d6 mortals is helpfull and he can bring in more skinks. sunfire throwers is a good anti horde unit drop him on an objective and bubble wrap him and your good. the bow is a poor mans bastiladon.

 

[Random Lizard]

My bad yes the Star Priest is good with the Venom staff. My gripe is Seraphon have nothing that kills anything anywhere in the whole army. Its all buffs on sub mediocre troops or movement stuff.

The Carnosaur is awful. I will say the Steggadon looks pretty interesting though. With the stomp attacks. How does he work out in play?

Stegadon is pretty good, after a charge he hurts quite a lot in theory (for me 3D6 attacks means 3 attacks but that goes any D6 so nothing special here). Bow is hit or miss most of the time...
Haven't tried flaming thingy yet.

 

[ILKAIN]

so I don't know how to split the quotes like that but here goes

they ARE balanced with our faction abilities. that doesn't mean they aren't redundant, it doesn't mean theres no overlap, it means our faction ability is stronger than most so our spells would be weaker than normal to balance. the strength of the faction is taken into consideration.

3 for the price of one I meant that you can field one in your starting army, and summon two more by turn 4.

I was unaware slaanesh had that much summoning, I have yet to play a game against them post Battletome

21/29 on the oldest book, suffering ALL the power creep (lack of prayers, lack of mount traits, lack of terrain, lack of endless spells, etc)… sorry but that's impressive to me. we should be dead last.

what got nerfed? our points went down on stegodons, troglodon, oldblood on carno, warriors, guard and knights kroxigor (skinks went up 10). sure we can only field 12 razordons… but lets be honest most seraphon players BITCHED so hard about trying to field 16 due to cost prohibition that they should rejoice... as they can now still field the maximum number of razordons for the same points, but save money on 4 models! that's 120$ less lol. our faction ability became RELIABLE and we got a spell lore (which irrelevant of how bad you think it is... is better than no spell lore so that's just strictly better!)

yall are just being pessimistic and biased, unable to look at things and say "you know what... things aren't so bad... and when they do get to us, they will have to give us the biggest relative bump due to all the power creep that has happened since 2015!

 

[ILKAIN]

Stegadon is pretty good, after a charge he hurts quite a lot in theory (for me 3D6 attacks means 3 attacks but that goes any D6 so nothing special here). Bow is hit or miss most of the time...
Haven't tried flaming thingy yet.

@samheim two stegs with flamers in a TQ are really strong and can devastate any horde out there with an almost guaranteed charge on turn 1

 

[Random Lizard]

so I don't know how to split the quotes like that but here goes

they ARE balanced with our faction abilities. that doesn't mean they aren't redundant, it doesn't mean theres no overlap, it means our faction ability is stronger than most so our spells would be weaker than normal to balance. the strength of the faction is taken into consideration.

3 for the price of one I meant that you can field one in your starting army, and summon two more by turn 4.

I was unaware slaanesh had that much summoning, I have yet to play a game against them post Battletome

21/29 on the oldest book, suffering ALL the power creep (lack of prayers, lack of mount traits, lack of terrain, lack of endless spells, etc)… sorry but that's impressive to me. we should be dead last.

what got nerfed? our points went down on stegodons, troglodon, oldblood on carno, warriors, guard and knights kroxigor (skinks went up 10). sure we can only field 12 razordons… but lets be honest most seraphon players BITCHED so hard about trying to field 16 due to cost prohibition that they should rejoice... as they can now still field the maximum number of razordons for the same points, but save money on 4 models! that's 120$ less lol. our faction ability became RELIABLE and we got a spell lore (which irrelevant of how bad you think it is... is better than no spell lore so that's just strictly better!)

yall are just being pessimistic and biased, unable to look at things and say "you know what... things aren't so bad... and when they do get to us, they will have to give us the biggest relative bump due to all the power creep that has happened since 2015!

I can agree with you on most points you bring up..

They nerfed engine of the gods and removed heavenswatch starhost also.

The problem is imo the first battletome released in AoS is gonna be (maybe) the last battletome released in 2,0. Coming up on 5 years soon and that's a long long time of seing almost only nerfs before getting buffed to match the rest of the playing field.
Nerfing units and/or mechanics that are good but far from broken in an army that barely manages to get results in tournaments while leaving untouched (mostly) the top tier armies or doing nerfs that are irrelevent is almost insulting.. Especially since the skink point cost change was probably caused by stormcast players allying skinks as battleline and not seraphon players.

 

[Erta Wanderer]

so I don't know how to split the quotes like that but here goes

copy past the quote bracets from the bigining and end around what you want to adress

they ARE balanced with our faction abilities. that doesn't mean they aren't redundant, it doesn't mean theres no overlap, it means our faction ability is stronger than most so our spells would be weaker than normal to balance. the strength of the faction is taken into consideration.

week does not meen usless and it is in derect conflict with half of our aligence abilities. we are already missing so much else that it realy wouldn't hurt to make our spells usable imeen why put it in if it's going to be terrable?

3 for the price of one I meant that you can field one in your starting army, and summon two more by turn 4.

if you can fit them on the board shur that sound really cool

I was unaware slaanesh had that much summoning, I have yet to play a game against them post Battletome

21/29 on the oldest book, suffering ALL the power creep (lack of prayers, lack of mount traits, lack of terrain, lack of endless spells, etc)… sorry but that's impressive to me. we should be dead last.

the only ones worse then us are the ones without books ,mixed death/destruction and the two worst armies in the game BCR and StD

what got nerfed? our points went down on stegodons, troglodon, oldblood on carno, warriors, guard and knights kroxigor (skinks went up 10). sure we can only field 12 razordons… but lets be honest most seraphon players BITCHED so hard about trying to field 16 due to cost prohibition that they should rejoice... as they can now still field the maximum number of razordons for the same points, but save money on 4 models! that's 120$ less lol. our faction ability became RELIABLE and we got a spell lore (which irrelevant of how bad you think it is... is better than no spell lore so that's just strictly better!)

our best lists got nerfed EotG got uped in price and with less razors(and they biched so hard becaus we already have a 400 point tax to all our armies) that meens thunder quake took a real hit shadow strike battalion cost more our telleport lost movement wich wile more consistent hurts fire lance and carnos in general. the only cost reductions that changed anything was knights not a good unit but seeing that skinks where nerffed they are playable and the carno wich is good

yall are just being pessimistic and biased, unable to look at things and say "you know what... things aren't so bad... and when they do get to us, they will have to give us the biggest relative bump due to all the power creep that has happened since 2015!

yup we are all hoping that it's a good update but we have 4+ months of being kicked in the head after 5 years of neglect before then. until then at least we arnt StD

 

[samheim]

Hey what would happen if the new Seraphon book comes out and it sucks even worst then it does now, like what happened to Sylvenetth?

 

[ILKAIN]

I can agree with you on most points you bring up..

They nerfed engine of the gods and removed heavenswatch starhost also.

The problem is imo the first battletome released in AoS is gonna be (maybe) the last battletome released in 2,0. Coming up on 5 years soon and that's a long long time of seing almost only nerfs before getting buffed to match the rest of the playing field.
Nerfing units and/or mechanics that are good but far from broken in an army that barely manages to get results in tournaments while leaving untouched (mostly) the top tier armies or doing nerfs that are irrelevent is almost insulting.. Especially since the skink point cost change was probably caused by stormcast players allying skinks as battleline and not seraphon players.

I don't think so, as warriors are our only true battleline, and the skinks lost that tag in GHB18... a year prior to the points increase. you are vastly undervaluing movement... I think a lot of you are... and we are hands down the most mobile army in the game....

 

[Erta Wanderer]

Hey what would happen if the new Seraphon book comes out and it sucks even worst then it does now, like what happened to Sylvenetth?

it really couldn't get much worse but it would meen a lot of complaining and i would shelve them for the foreseeable future