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AoS Tactics for other Armies

Discussion in 'Seraphon Tactics' started by Killer Angel, Jan 6, 2016.

  1. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Really deadly. I like it!
    Shadoblade + assassins is highly efficient.
    Doomfire Warlocks are far morescarier than Ogre's maw.
    And Hellebron + Executioners can wipe away entire units.
    Plus, if you're using Hellebron, you already have the command ability you need, so the dreadlord on dragon is kinda "wasted". Wouldn't it be better to directly field Malekith? he halves the wounds, and with his spell, he delivers mortal wound while healing himself: he's almost immortal!

    (now imagine Malekith'd dragon plus a War Hydra)


    Going for a different list, you can really optimize mortal wounds delivered by executioners... with the formation of the exiled blood cult, you can deliver mortal wounds also with to wound rolls, and a master with battle standard and Standard of Murder, can really help in that. Of course, you should use also witch elves, but the Cauldron is really made to work with them.
     
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  2. YZK
    Saurus

    YZK Member

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  3. dwarfepic
    Chameleon Skink

    dwarfepic Active Member

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    guys can I do a vampire counts army. realy like the models and want to see what challenges they possess
     
  4. Wazz
    Troglodon

    Wazz Well-Known Member

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    I use my Ogres in a "Trojan horse" kinda way bc I always have to play against Wood elves with Ogres in the front with Leadbelchers behind them followed by Ironguts and my Tyrant, so the Ogres are meat shields while the Tyrant and Ironguts can get in un shot. 60% of the time it works everytime.
     
  5. Rekmeister
    Skink

    Rekmeister Member

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    Exciting Update re: Dark Elf Army.

    Thanks to the new Grand Alliance: Order book, the list I posted no longer works. Dreadlord on foot is no longer a profile, all but two of the command abilities have been removed, and the Exiles keyword is gone along with all faction wide synergies. I am not bashing GW's decision, but Dark Elves have been split into 5 different factions with NO synergy between one another (beyond the assassins ability to hide within any unit - good ally). One of the factions, Shadowblades, features an expansive TWO WARSCROLLS! I'm hoping some point in the future this is slightly alleviated. To those wondering about the rest of the factions, they are generally OK - High Elves have been split into three factions, and wood elves end up suffering the least; remaining one solid army.

    My advice now to any dark elf player would be simply to take what you like, ally in what makes it better, and use the Thrall Warhost with a big unit of Executioners, giving them the ability to fight in both the hero and combat phase is phenomenal.
     
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  6. YZK
    Saurus

    YZK Member

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    The battletome surely shook things up! While there is no synergy between the separate dark elf factions, there is a lot more synergy within each faction. Also their battalions are pretty nice; all are very aggressive.

    Anyway, I'd like to challenge you guys to come up with a competitive/overpowered Disposessed list now that the order book is out!
     
  7. dwarfepic
    Chameleon Skink

    dwarfepic Active Member

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    Got a firend who is currently unbeaten with his dissposessed (we are yet to play), so I could learn a few tricks form him... ;)
     
  8. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    As already said in this thread, Orcs & goblins are so many, that you can field a bunch of different armies, without (almost) the need to repeat models.
    We already have discussed night goblins and forest goblins, so it’s time for some orcs.
    As for their lesser cousins, also orcs come in different flavors. We’ll see both of them: the “martial” orcs, and the savage ones.


    ORCS – IRONJAWS BIG MOB (125 wounds)​


    These ones are more similar (at least in my mind) to a standard army. Militia, conscripts, and elite troops. This formation is centered upon their best warriors, and let you add 1 to all “to wound” rolls (which is no small thing).

    Heroes (total wound: 22)

    Orc warboss: you need him with Waaagh! Banner (it let reroll “to wound” rolls of 1 for Orruk units). (6 wounds); he will be your general: orruk units will be frenzied and each model will make an extra attack. (!!!)
    Orc Bully: you need him for the warmachines. Those puny goblins are unreliable! (4 wounds)
    Grimgor Ironhide: his mere presence will let reroll 1s “to hit” for nearby Black Orcs units. (7 wounds)
    Savage orc shaman (5 wounds): I know he’s “savage”, but you need some magical support, and the Foot of Gork is one of the best spells for orcs. I would like at least 2 of them but we’re short on wounds.

    Troops (total wound: 68)

    Black orcs: these guys are the elite troop of the orcs. Save 4+, 2 wound each, 2 attacks, rend -1…
    The formation requires 3 units of them. Pick 2 units of 5 orcs each, and one unit of 24 orcs. With 2 wounds each, this one will be basically a deathstar made of 48 wounds… that hurts a lot:
    They hit at 4+ and wound at 3+, BUT if they’re near a Black Orc Big Boss (Grimgor Ironhide), they gain a +1 to hit. Alongside with the bonuses from the Formation, the Banner, the ability of Grimgor, they will hit at 3+ and wound at 2+, rerolling ALL the 1s. And with the command ability of the Warboss, each one of them will deliver 3 attacks.
    Even if only 14 of them will be in close combat after the “pile in”, we’re talking about 42 attacks, that will probably end in 32-34 saves.

    Warmachines / monsters (total wound: 35)

    Giant: I don’t like it (trolls would be far better), but it’s included in the formation. (12 wounds)
    Goblins spear chukka (6 wounds) – Rock Lobber (9 wounds) – Doom Diver Catapult (8 wounds): these ones will hit hard, and they cover a wide array of situations, given that they excel against different targets. The chukka will kill heroes, the Lobber will deal with enemy’s hordes, and the Catapult will give you a wonderful range. Place them as a triangle, with the Orc Bully at the center, and enjoy.


    Strategy

    Brutally simple and easy. As already said, your big hammer unit is the Black Orcs deathstar, buffed by the abilities of your heroes. It should be able to deal with almost anything…. And it will have the support of dangerous heroes: for example, Grimgor Ironhide will have both the bonuses granted by the Banner and the general’s command ability (re-rolls 1s “to wound” and extra attack) and the entire goodies of the formation (+1 to wound, re-roll to hit against heroes or monsters). Once buffed, he’s a scary guy to deal with.
    The 2 lesser units of orcs are disposable (think to them as chaff)… the Giant is there just because he’s big and can deal some serious damage in close combat, so he’s potentially threatening and will draw upon himself the enemy’s fire, leaving intact your Deathstar, that is running forward.
    The warmachines (the second key to victory) will follow your army with their movement (so you can be sure the spear chukka will be at distance to kill enemy’s wizards) and their main job will be to soften / kill enemy’s shooters and all those units that you may find difficult to engage in CC (your orcs have move 5”, so you could suffer fast units that wants to keep you at a distance).
    The shaman will shield the deathstar or will try to stomp someone with the Foot of Gork.


    (next to come: Savage Orcs)
     
  9. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    SAVAGE ORCS – BONESPLITTAS BIG MOB (125 wounds)​


    These feral orcs are the wild version of the basic orcs, and that’s an impressive result, by itself.
    The peculiar ability of savage orcs, is the warpaint: they all have it, and when they suffer a wound, or a mortal wound, on a 6, they negate it.
    The bonesplittas mob exploits the warpaint, adding a +1 to the roll (thus a model will be saved on a 5), and the charging units are frenzied, gaining 1 extra attack with each melee weapon ‘til your next combat phase.
    All in all, a powerful formation.

    Heroes (total wound: 21)

    1 Savage Orc warboss: his command ability will let a bonesplittas unit to make extra attack on each 6 “to hit” roll. With a bone shield you can re-roll saves (5+), but if you fight with a 2handed Stonecleava, you’ll have a rend-2, doing d3 dam.
    3 Savage orc shaman (5+5+5 wounds): as said, the Foot of Gork is one of the best spells for orcs. And 3 casters are really nice for support.

    Troops (total wound: 68)

    Savage orcs: you can give these guys a feral bow (but you cannot count too much on it), or make ‘em more “protect”, with 1 Stone Choppa (or Flint spear) and crude shield.
    Crude shield let them re-roll saves (but they only save on 6+).
    If a unit has more than 20 models, you can re-roll failed to hit.
    For every 10 models, 2 of them can carry a Big Stabba (2 attacks, rend -1, 3 damage. Really nice, you want as many as you can).
    The formation requires 3 units of them. Pick 2 units of 10 orcs each (with choppa), and one unit of 30 orcs (with spears) for a total of 50 wounds. The unit of 30 orcs, must be equipped absolutely with crude shields (and 3 Big Stabba).
    Savage orc boar boyz: one unit of 9 models (18 wounds) they can have 2 crude choppas (re-rollin 1s “to hit”) or 1 crude Choppas and crude shield (re-rolling saves, even if only 6+). Choose the latter (you’ll see why). The War Boars re-roll failed “to wound”.

    Other units: (total wound: 36)

    Trolls are amazing. They all have noxious vomit (6”, 3+ to hit, 3+ to wound, rend -2, dam d3), nasty melee weapons, and, most of all, regeneration (on a 2+, they heal d3 wounds in your hero phase). Each kind of troll, have its own special ability.
    You’ll pick:
    1 unit of 3 “basic” Trolls: save 5+; ability: each time a troll is slain, on a 4+ remains with 1 wound.
    1 unit of 3 Stone Trolls: save 4+, but an almost worthless ability (you can keep them for the good save, or double the number of “basic” trolls).
    1 unit of 3 River Trolls: save 5+; ability: in CC the enemy must subtract 1 to its “to hit” (this is good, but even in this case, you could simply use another unit of basic trolls)


    Strategy


    This army doesn’t die.
    All you models will have warpaint and, tnx to the formation’s bonus, they’ll have a free save 5+ (unmodifiable) vs wounds (regardless of any rend) and mortal wounds.
    Against attacks with no rend, your shaman will cast Mystic Shield upon your big block of Savage Orcs and on your Boar Boyz: tnx to the ability of their shield, they’ll have a save at 5+, rerollable, plus the warpaint. Basically, each model will have THREE SAVES at 5+.
    The only units of your army without warpaint, will be the trolls, and they regenerate… and for basic trolls, even if they are dying, you can save them on a 4+ (and a troll with 1 wound is a troll that is going to heal d3 wounds in the next turn).
    You can call them “The Immortalz”, ‘cause they’re not going down easily.

    And now, focus on the damage:
    Boar Boyz are fast, they have bonus on charges and, tnx to the formation, they will do extra attacks both with the orcs and with the boars, rerolling failed to wound and possibly doing extra attacks for each 6 (tnx to your general’s command ability).
    The group of 30 frenzied savage orcs, on a charge, will deliver 9 attacks with the Big Stabba, re-rolling all failed to hit (again, command ability for additional attacks on a 6). They are an excellent line-breaker… plus all the other attacks with the spears (again, re-rolling failed to hit).
    The Trolls deliver huge damage, with rend -1/-2.
    With so many targets that don’t die, you can be almost sure that your shaman won’t be a primary target… and when they’re at range, 3 Feet of Gork will open large holes in almost every unit.
     
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  10. YZK
    Saurus

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  11. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Well "they won't die" is an exxageration, but 3 saves are pretty solid.
    Let's say your saurus warriors inflict 18 wounds to savage orcs.
    With the first save i reduce the amount to 12. Then they go down to 8, then with the warpaint, i save another 2-3.
    18 wounds become 5-6 dead.
    I'm basically saving 2/3 of your successful "to wound", which is a great result for almost naked troops.
    You need a lot of work, to erase my 30 orcs horde, while I severely hurt you with 3 Big Stabba (the last ones to die).

    To have a similar level of protection, saurus warriors need mystic shield AND celestial rites.
     
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  12. dwarfepic
    Chameleon Skink

    dwarfepic Active Member

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    Flesh eater courts
    I may not approve of wounds balancing here comes 125 wounds of flesh eaters...

    Abhorrent ghoul king on terrorghiest - 14
    crypt infernal courtier - 20
    crypt haunter courtier - 26
    Abhorrant ghoul king on zombie dragon - 40
    crypt ghast courtier - 44
    Abhorrant ghoul king - 50
    3x crypt horrors - 62
    3x varghiests - 74
    4x crypt flayers - 90
    35x crypt ghouls - 125

    this army may not have access to high level rend (with the notable exception, the breath of the zombie dragon), but can deal a sizeable amount of mortal wounds (terrroghiest), and can put out a lot of attacks. let me explain...

    First the masses of attacks. crypt ghouls already have two attacks base, then another for over 20 models, then another for the ghoul king on foots spell, and finally one more if the crypt ghast courtier has killed a model nearby. this makes five attacks each. at full strength and all of them in range to hit, that's 175 attacks. then if near the king they will get to re roll hits of one, and with the king on zombie dragons command ability, re roll all wound rolls. this is and average of around 75 saves needed to be made. surely something will die to that!

    next, access to rend. this comes in the zombie dragons breath, with rend three. very few things can withstand that. this is really outdone though by the mortal wounds this army can deal. The terrorghiest can deal six! mortal wounds on a six for a wound roll. this may not seem very likely, but with re rolls from the zombie dragon, and an extra attack from the king on foot, you have a good chance of getting this of every turn. next, crypt flayers. these get four attacks each sixes to hit do mortal wounds. very nice. the crypt infernal courtier is for keeping these guys alive, and he can do some mortal wounds of his own.

    crypt horrors and their corresponding courtier are meant to be the body guards of whichever king is most vulnerable. with unholy vitality from the terrorgiest, these wound and model regenerating abominations really will be hard to kill.

    fairly sure I missed something out, but can fix that.:)
     
  13. Wazz
    Troglodon

    Wazz Well-Known Member

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    They might be my 2nd favorite army! I really like their lore. My girlfriend got their big box over the weekend so I'm excited to play against them and use them. The king on foot only gives them extra melee attacks though I thought. Still deadly plus there is now way to stop them from bringing extra models on the board without killing the one who do it lol.
     
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  14. dwarfepic
    Chameleon Skink

    dwarfepic Active Member

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    Not an easy task!
     
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  15. Wazz
    Troglodon

    Wazz Well-Known Member

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    Lol exactly what sold her on them haha. She might play them in our local gws AoS league!
     
  16. dwarfepic
    Chameleon Skink

    dwarfepic Active Member

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    Also forgot another source of mortal wounds... the screams of the terroghiest and the crypt flayers :)
     
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  17. heksagon
    Saurus

    heksagon Active Member

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    I use my Seraphons with Stormcast aaaand they're working great together.
    My favorite mix is using Carnos with Decimators (great damage, -2 to Bravery. Battleshock phase could be a real PAIN for your opponent).

    Also, using Kroak with any of Stormcast's Deep Strike Formation is REALLY fun. :) Your opponent is busy since the first turn and you can attack his units with Kroak's spells.

    Btw. I know this sucks, but does anyone has SC Warrior Brotherhood Warscroll? I could buy an Order Battletome, but I just need that one Warscroll, so... :p It would be ultra cool if anyone could send me this Warscroll.

    //edit: You can delete this post, it belongs to "Synergies with other armies" thread. My bad.
     
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  18. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    There are so new things in AoS, that probably a good third of the tactics in the previous pages, could be largely improved... :p
     
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  19. Wazz
    Troglodon

    Wazz Well-Known Member

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    I've been using my Ogors in my GWs AoS tournament the last few weeks. I've been using a Thundertusk as scare tactics and bc its good lol. People freak try to gun for it woth their monster turn 1 get blasted for 6 mortal wounds then try to blugeon it in close combat with lower stats and -1 to hit bc of its ability. While they are doing that my Ironguts run through and usually 1 shot other units. I alternate using my Butcher as a mystic shield machine and wiping whole units with the Maw spell. I've had great luck with it. Took out a unit of 20 with it on one cast.
     
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  20. dwarfepic
    Chameleon Skink

    dwarfepic Active Member

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    With your butcher! this guy sounds like Nagash!
     
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