8th Ed. The BEST close combat units in all of Warhammer.

[Killer Angel]

So far, this little competition has confirmed something that I had heard quite a while ago. When the Dark Elves arrived at the scene, they sported some pretty hard counters that gave the WoC quite a bit of trouble, namely, their infantry outclassed WoC infantry!

To be fair, DE is not exactly a underpowered army.... we'll see how WoC will perform against different opponents.

 

[Lizards of Renown]

Second to last match of this round. Nurgle Chaos Warriors vs. Executioners!

Wow, that was razor close, but the Executioners are able to prevail... barely!

I think the "barely" sums it up really here. Both units are pretty flipping deadly.

Chaos Warriors are great, but I think at times we focus on their stats and not on their points cost. This was pretty much a repeat of the Skullcrushers vs. Demigryph matchup. Now, in actual game terms, the battle between these two elite units is nearly a coin toss.

Yes. Both units are deadly. And also whichever unit wins the combat is going to be very combat-inefficient for the rest of the game due to the casualties that they received. In a normal game, this is where generalling comes into play: how do you set-up match-ups that will give you the best chance of not just winning but ideally leaving the unit in a position where it can still cause a threat and not just have to retreat to save the victory.

So, how do you feel about the Chaos Warriors now? They are a good unit, but maybe not as OP as they are made out to be. That's two straight losses to two Dark Elves infantry units.

Chaos Warriors are elite, but not invincible. Dark Elves are also elite, but not invincible.

Don't go into a battle with either of them thinking that you will win in straight up combat. You will need good tactics, but it can be done.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

and I don’t collect Dark Elves so don’t have access to those counters

But you do have access to an Organ Gun!

To be fair, DE is not exactly a underpowered army.... we'll see how WoC will perform against different opponents.

I'd imagine that they still have a few wins and a few losses left in the field.

I think the "barely" sums it up really here. Both units are pretty flipping deadly.

Yup. I'm curious to see if the Witch Elves will fare better (or worse).

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Okay, last match of round 3. Chaos Trolls versus Hell Pit Abomination!

Key rules in play:

• Chaos Trolls: Regeneration
• Hell Pit Abomination: Regeneration, Stubborn, Special Close Combat Attacks

And just like that, the last undefeated unit of the tournament is no more!

The Troll's leadership lets them down. They are effectively grinding down the HPA, but can't generate enough wounds to level out the combat result once they are reduced to 5 models and lose their rank bonus. In an actual game they would be likely to win the engagement if you had your general (or Throgg) and BSB around. A war of attrition would favour the Chaos Trolls with their far superior pool of wounds.

The HPA earns a solid victory against a very game opponent. Weighing in at only 235 points, these guys are pretty solid. From a gameplay perspective, I'd definitely take one over a Stegadon! Regeneration, Stubborn, powerful attacks... and a chance to come back alive!

With that round 3 comes to a close. I hope you all enjoyed @Mrs. NIGHTBRINGER 's matchup picks.





And as always... Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

At the end of three rounds, here are the current standings:




As discussed earlier, points are awarded as follows:

 

[Lizards of Renown]

At the end of three rounds, here are the current standings:

View attachment 81398


As discussed earlier, points are awarded as follows:
View attachment 81399

Definitely not the line-up I was expecting.

I can't help but notice that the Chaos Dwarf representative has been put at the top of the No 1's...

 

[Killer Angel]

Okay, last match of round 3. Chaos Trolls versus Hell Pit Abomination!

slightly unexpected, but the abomination is a hell of a monster!
And yeah, we are too used to see trolls with Throgg or BSB nearby. MUCH deadlier.

 

[Lizards of Renown]

slightly unexpected, but the abomination is a hell of a monster!
And yeah, we are too used to see trolls with Throgg or BSB nearby. MUCH deadlier.

Or the General's bubble.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

But you do have access to an Organ Gun!

That is indeed true, even though it is not the most honourable way for a Dwarf to wage war, blasting my foes apart with artillery and handguns will ensure they can’t use any special gifts from GW for being their teacher’s pets against me in melee.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

I can't help but notice that the Chaos Dwarf representative has been put at the top of the No 1's...

Blame Excel for that one. The list was originally ordered according to the order in which we nominated the contestants (i.e. the same order we see on our matchup result tables). I then sorted the list based on points earned. I guess in the case of a draw, Excel reverted to the original order.

Or maybe that is simply the universe's way of putting its money on the K'daai Destroyer to win the tournament (which is definitely a possibility since the Skullcrushers are faltering a bit).

slightly unexpected, but the abomination is a hell of a monster!
And yeah, we are too used to see trolls with Throgg or BSB nearby. MUCH deadlier

Agreed.

Throgg is what makes Chaos Trolls better than their Orcs & Goblins counterparts!

That is indeed true, even though it is not the most honourable way for a Dwarf to wage war, blasting my foes apart with artillery and handguns will ensure they can’t use any special gifts from GW for being their teacher’s pets against me in melee.

Now you can't complain about facing the WoC. Nobody likes facing a gunline army.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

As for the Dark Elf units, I’ve just thought of a great unit to counter them, though they can’t appear in the tournament now - Ironbreakers. Against the Witch Elves they get their full 3+ armour save and against the Black Guard they get 4+ , alongside the 5+ parry save they get against all three thanks to Shieldwall of Gromril. From working it out in my head they force the Witch Elves to break after a single round of combat and they kill marginally more of the Black Guard than they lose each turn despite striking after them.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

As for the Dark Elf units, I’ve just thought of a great unit to counter them, though they can’t appear in the tournament now - Ironbreakers. Against the Witch Elves they get their full 3+ armour save and against the Black Guard they get 4+ , alongside the 5+ parry save they get against all three thanks to Shieldwall of Gromril. From working it out in my head they force the Witch Elves to break after a single round of combat and they kill marginally more of the Black Guard than they lose each turn despite striking after them.

Without having run the numbers, I'd take a guess and say that would work. Solid armour is how you beat the Witch Elves, and the Ironbreakers have it in spades with their 3+ 5++.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Round 4 is upon us. To start things off, we have Black Guard of Naggarond vs. Mournfang Cavalry!

Key rules in play:

• Black Guard: ASF, Murderous Prowess, Stubborn
• Mournfang Cavalry: Thick Skinned

THE MOURNFANG WIN! THE MOURNFANG WIN! THE MOURNFANG WIN! And with that their 3 fight losing streak is over.

Simply put, the Black Guard (like Witch Elves) don't like facing big time armour. Strength 4 just didn't cut it. The Black Guard got to strike first, but the Mournfang's 2+ armour save (reduced to 3+) kept them in the game. The Mournfang starting 3 wide, reduced the Black Guard's attacks by 3, which was just enough to have 4 Mournfang survive (1 on a single wound). The Black Guard have no choice but to form up to maximize their attacks each round, as going narrower would only serve to reduce their attacks and not effect the Mournfang's attacks.




And as always... Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!

 

[Killer Angel]

THE MOURNFANG WIN! THE MOURNFANG WIN! THE MOURNFANG WIN!

That pretty much sums up my feelings...

 

[Lizards of Renown]

Round 4 is upon us. To start things off, we have Black Guard of Naggarond vs. Mournfang Cavalry!

Key rules in play:

• Black Guard: ASF, Murderous Prowess, Stubborn
• Mournfang Cavalry: Thick Skinned

View attachment 81439


THE MOURNFANG WIN! THE MOURNFANG WIN! THE MOURNFANG WIN! And with that their 3 fight massive losing streak is over and they move out of their last place tie with the Arachnarok Spider.

Simply put, the Black Guard (like Witch Elves) don't like facing big time armour. Strength 4 just didn't cut it. The Black Guard got to strike first, but the Mournfang's 2+ armour save (reduced to 3+) kept them in the game. The Mournfang starting 3 wide, reduced the Black Guard's attacks by 3, which was just enough to have 4 Mournfang survive (1 on a single wound). The Black Guard have no choice but to form up to maximize their attacks each round, as going narrower would only serve to reduce their attacks and not effect the Mournfang's attacks.

It was a close bout, but the Mournfang are finally have one in the win column.

View attachment 81440

And as always... Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!

Well, thank **** for that. HOORAY!!!

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

That pretty much sums up my feelings...

Well, thank **** for that. HOORAY!!!

Every unit in the competition, except for the Arachnarok has a win now! Interestingly, every unit also has a loss.

 

[Lizards of Renown]

Every unit in the competition, except for the Arachnarok has a win now! Interestingly, every unit also has a loss.

Well, as gone over, I am particularly found on the Mournfangs, so I really wanted them to not end up as the total losers (but I already knew there was no way they were taking top spot).

The Black Guard are a unit that they are designed to take out (especially if you are a canny general and make sure that they get the charge and thus their impact hits). If I knew I was playing Dark Elves, I probably would have taken two units of three (since they don't have the Ogre Charge rule and their impact hits don't increase in strength with additional ranks) and used them as brutal flank chargers.

Anyways, this is getting exciting now! I think on this round the winner will start to distance themselves from the pack (to be honest I think it will end up being the K'Daai... I guess we'll see!)

Definitely didn't see the Arachnarok ending up at the bottom of the table though... That's an interesting one and highlights the neutering of monsters in 8th edition.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Well, as gone over, I am particularly found on the Mournfangs, so I really wanted them to not end up as the total losers (but I already knew there was no way they were taking top spot).

And there is a good chance that they'll replicate the feat against the Witch Elves. They'll benefit from their full 2+ save agains them!

Anyways, this is getting exciting now! I think on this round the winner will start to distance themselves from the pack (to be honest I think it will end up being the K'Daai... I guess we'll see!)

You know, I've been thinking the exact same thing. As soon as the Skullcrusher's started to falter, the door began opening for the Destroyer to potentially claim the top spot. The Destroyer looks to have one extremely hard matchup on the horizon, but it now appears that the Skullcrushers have at least two.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Is it wrong that I'm really looking forwards to the Lions being absolutely obliterated by someone?

Trust me, you are not alone.

The God-Emperor NIGHTBRINGER (or is that title only unlocked after 50k posts? ) has heard your pleas. Fear not my brothers, for he is a merciful Slann.

It would appear that the White Lions (with their stupid banner) love to pick on Deamons of Chaos units. They seemed to have a bit of trouble against the Dwarfs, but not enough to satisfy your lust for their suffering. As such, I believe we simply need a better breed of Dwarfs (sorry @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl ) to be the instrument of your vengeful fury, or more accurately the fine craftsmanship of a better breed of Dwarfs. So with that, I present:

K'daai Destroyer vs. the White Lions of Chrace.

Key rules in play:

• Destroyer: Unstable, Unbreakable, Blazing Body, Bound Fire Daemon, Frenzy (D3 Attacks)
• White Lions: Martial Prowess, Stubborn, ASF and ASL cancel each other out

An easy Massive Victory for the K'daai Destroyer. In place of my usual post fight analysis, I've prepared a lovely pictorial replay of the match:

Spoiler: Enjoy!

And here is our updated table:


I hope that has satiated your bloodlust for High Elven death and misery!

And as always... Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!

 

[Lizards of Renown]

The God-Emperor NIGHTBRINGER (or is that title only unlocked after 50k posts? ) has heard your pleas. Fear not my brothers, for he is a merciful Slann.

It would appear that the White Lions (with their stupid banner) love to pick on Deamons of Chaos units. They seemed to have a bit of trouble against the Dwarfs, but not enough to satisfy your lust for their suffering. As such, I believe we simply need a better breed of Dwarfs (sorry @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl ) to be the instrument of your vengeful fury, or more accurately the fine craftsmanship of a better breed of Dwarfs. So with that, I present:

K'daai Destroyer vs. the White Lions of Chrace.

Key rules in play:

• Destroyer: Unstable, Unbreakable, Blazing Body, Bound Fire Daemon, Frenzy (D3 Attacks)
• White Lions: Martial Prowess, Stubborn, ASF and ASL cancel each other out

View attachment 81491

An easy Massive Victory for the K'daai Destroyer. In place of my usual post fight analysis, I've prepared a lovely pictorial replay of the match:

Spoiler: Enjoy!

View attachment 81492 View attachment 81493 View attachment 81494

And here is our updated table:
View attachment 81495

I hope that has satiated your bloodlust for High Elven death and misery!

And as always... Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!

Doesn't the K'Daai's attacks all count as magical (as a Daemon) and so activates the 2+ ward save ridiculousness?