I'm looking forward to analyzing and discussing your findings! Have you uncovered anything useful yet?
I think so.
So I did a little looking through army books to see if there was a viable counter for the Hortennse Lord or a nullification.
I did this against the following build, which I consider the most dangerous.Chaos Lord or Exalted Hero3+ ward save (Talisman of Preservation + Mark of Tzeentch)ability to re-roll ward saves of '1' (Third Eye of Tzeentch)ability to self heal (Soul Feeder)1+ armour save (a combination of Chaos armour, magic items, mount and/or Scaled Skin)Disc or Daemonic Mount (meaning the flying mount cannot be specifically killed)Nightbringer subsequently said also GW
By army:
Beastmen: If Lord Agrogax has an idea on this, I'd love to know as I don't see they have anything that would worry the Hortennse. Tarpit for sure with a large Ungor unit, but again there is the problem of movement with the Hortennnse on a Disc or Daemonic Mount that can fly and easily avoid tarpits.
Brettonia: Nothing I can see (adjusted from before as I had some data still rocking around in my noggin from a Warhammer Projects book).
Daemons of Chaos: Cannons are the only thing I see that would realistically cause a problem and even then the 3++ rerolls 1's pretty much neuters this.
Possibly the Slaanesh spell with the random movement and ASL abilities as a delaying tactic.
Dark Elves: Malekeith is the best one here. As he has the ability to destroy one of the Hortennse's magic items on any hit that he scores (any hit, roll 4+ and you can destroy one of the magic items). He's a pretty fearsome fighter himself anyways so would be a good investment for the DE player.
Dwarfs: Cannons as above with limited effectiveness.
Lord Agragax gives a good example of a Lord that could tie up the Hortennse but the primary problem is going to be getting him into the combat. Dwarfs are not noted for their speed...
Empire: Cannons as above with limited effectiveness.
Light - Banishment would be a threat to the Hortennse. Given a group of 4 total (caster plus three others) you have a Strength 7, re-roll successful ward saves attack. The obvious con's for this is the WoC player can give this a priority to dispel or use dispell scrolls. It's not going to be subtle, given that the Light Wizards need to be within 12" of each other.
Death - Purple Sun has a chance, but the Hortennse has a good initiative so would be on a 6. Unlikely.
Life - Dwellers Bellow has a chance, but again on a 6.
Metal - Given that this Lore has several attacking spells that turn the 1+ armour save against the Hortennse, this would be the best Magic to field. You also have a chance of getting Final Transmutation which, again on a 6, has a chance of nuking the Hortennse with no saves. This would definitely be the Lore of choice from the basic 8.
Magics as above, priority on the Lore of Metal. Get several casters so you can get off the signature spell several times and force the WoC player to make as many Ward Saves as possible. He only has 3 wounds so you obviously don't need that many to get through for it to work. It's possible.
Van Horstmanns Speculum: Get a cheap character on a flying mount and charge the Hortennse. Swap Strength, Toughness, Initiative and Attacks and keep him tied up for a bit at least. Even if 2 turns it could change the course of the battle, considering how much points have been invested in the Hortennse.
High Elves: As
@NIGHTBRINGER already brought up, Arcane Unmaking is going to be the saving grace here. No wound necessary and even if you hit him once with this, you have a chance to neuter the build in one way or another (Crown of Command, making him susceptible to the combat resolution, Talisman of Preservation, giving him a 6+ reroll 1's Ward Save).
The only problem, is I don't see any other threat to the Hortennse that it cannot avoid. Possibly the elite unit with the 4+ ward saves as this would at least tie him up for a while since EVERY model has a 4+ Ward Save. If you stuck a wizard with their Lore Attribute in the unit, suddenly they are ALL 3+ Ward Saves and could keep him there for a while.
Lizardmen: Slann with Metal as above or with High Magic as above. High Magic would be better and you could always switch out a spell for the Searing Doom spell and have both.
As
@NIGHTBRINGER points out there is the Blade of Realities, but with the Lizardmen horrific initiative and the fact that the Old Blood would have no Ward Save, this isn't great at all. He could have a 1+ save with a CO, Heavy Armour and Shield. If the Hortennse has the GW then he's ASL so you'd have a chance of killing him. If the Hortennse doesn't have the GW then most likely he's going to be able to attack once before he gets killed.
Spells would be the way to go here.
Ogre Kingdoms: Tarpit could be done by Gnoblars, but still the movement factor is a problem. If you did manage to get them into combat, given a large Gnoblar unit within 12" of the general, they can stay there for a while. The Hortennse still has only 5 attacks and even at 3's to hit you're talking 3-4 wounds per combat and with a +3 for ranks (at least initially), plus standard and musician, you could actually win the combat potentially. With a 40 strong Gnoblar unit means he'll be there for most of the game.
Still Cannons, even the option to do S10 Grapeshot is still pretty good as it's a good chance of getting at least 6 shots, 3 of which should hit on average.
Ultimately, the Ogre Kingdoms don't really have much to counter the Hortennse. You'd have to tempt him to charge the tarpit somehow.
Orcs & Goblins: The only real threat I see here is (somewhat ironically) Giants. From what I can see, the Hortennse does not come under the categroy of Big Things, so the Giant has "Pick up and..." and "Yell and Bawl". The first has 3 options where the model is simply removed as a casualty no saves mentioned, just removed (IIRC it is eaten, squashed and stashed for later). And "Yell and Bawl" means that he loses the combat. Obviously there is a chance something else happens and if the Hortennse doesn't have ASL because of the GW then most likely the Giant will be dead first. By odds, I believe that the Giant could survive long enough to have two chances to eat, squash or stash. I'd go for it. The problem being that the Hortennse could avoid the Giant as the movement is very superior. Overall, still not a good option.
Tarpit could be done by cheap goblins, but still the movement factor is a problem. Give a large Goblin unit Crown of Command, within 12" of the general and they can stay there for a while. The Hortennse still has only 5 attacks and even at 3's to hit you're talking 3-4 wounds per combat which with a 30 or 40 strong Goblin unit means he'll be there for most of the game.
Skaven: Funnily enough, Skaven have a viable option here. Fellblade is S10 and any successful ward saves must be re-rolled. You'd still be hard pressed to catch the Hortennse and you'd have to build in a good Ward Save to keep the Warlord alive long enough to use it. Skitterleap can be used to good effect to get teleported close enough to the Hortennse to get into combat.
Skaven also have the Brass Orb, 8" range, initiative test or destroyed with no saves possible. Still a high chance to survive considering he'd have to roll a 6, but it's an option.
Tomb Kings: There are no great options for TKs. But a couple of ideas.
Tempt Hortennse into combat with a Tomb Guard unit and then buff the s**t out of it (5+ ward save and Killing Blow on 5+ for the troops). Not great as the ward save still in action even if you roll a bunch of 6's to bypass the armour.
Necrosphinx is an idea, but at T8 vs the Hortennse GW S7, he isn't going to last very long. Even buffed with a 5++ the kitty doesn't get any armour save and is being hit on a 3+. The Necrosphinx has less initiative so he's going to get probably one shot at killing the Hortennse and the odds are pretty great that he'll actually make this.
They have access to the Light Council Tactic, they could also use the Casket of Souls which ignores armour but still has to deal with the ward save.
Wood Elves: High Magic or Lore of Metal again here.
The Twilight Twins are actually a viable tarpit option, since you have to kill both of them in the same turn otherwise they both return to full wounds. Could be a viable tarpit since with 5 attacks he could definitely kill one, but not the other as he would need to allocate attacks to each model to do this. He has 5 attacks, so 3 on one and 2 on the other. This is unlikely to kill BOTH of them so the combat would continue. This could work, especially if they are on the Giant Eagle that cannot otherwise be slain as they are then fast enough to catch the Hortennse and tie him up.
Vampire Counts: Unfortunately for Lord Agrogax this is where I have found the really viable Hortennse counter and potential killer. The Vampire Lord can be buffed to Level 4 wizard, take 100 points of vampiric abilities and 100 points of magic items.
I would give him a Hellsteed so he flies and can catch the Hortennse. Then I'd give him the vampiric abilities of +1 wound (now 4), -1 leadership to those in CC with him and the ability where your opponent has to test at -3 ld at the beginning of each combat phase and if failed has to reroll all successful to hit rolls. I'd give him the Obsidian Blade (ignores armour), heavy armour and shield, Talisman of Preservation.
So... each turn the Hortennse has to pass a Leadership 5 test. Most likely fail and have to re-roll all successful to hit rolls. Vampire Lord (with lore attribute) can heal himself every time he casts ANY spell and with 4 wounds he can keep himself whole. He is mounted so is 3+ armour save and 4++ ward save. He can definitely tie up the Hortennse and could probably grind him down to a kill since he only has to get 3 hits past the ward save.
It could work. Obviously if he's also charged by another unit we get problems, etc. etc. but he has the ability to chase down the Hortennse, pin him down almost indefinitely and potentially grind him down to death.
That's what I see.
Thoughts my friends?
@NIGHTBRINGER ?
Do not seek glory here, for you shall only find death.
There is no escape from Chaos, it marks us all!
