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Advice for Tomb Kings tactics & army list

Killer Angel said:
well, DE are certainly more vulnerable to shooting than WoC, so it should help you if you are still planning to bring some archers units.

Not great exp with carrions, but they are not that bad... of course, you must employ them in the correct way, which (alas) boils down to very few specific tasks:
- go for the crew of some warmachine (well, if you're not bringing stalkers)
- harass some shooting unit (other archers, and similar)
- screen / redirect
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Thanks for the response on the Carrion. Anything to say on the multiple units and Nehekharan Undead Unstable rule?
 
Lizards of Renown said:
1) How does it work with the Nehekharan Undead (Unstable part) when there are TWO units fighting another and they collectively lose the combat. Do they both have to take the combat different in additional wounds? I can't seem to find something that answers this clearly...
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Both units lose wounds equal to the number they lost combat by.

For example:

A unit of Skeleton Warriors and a Warspinx are both locked in combat with a K'daai Destroyer. The Chaos Dwarf player, being the clever general that he is, allocates all of his attacks at the Skeletons (because why try to wound T8, when you don't have to). Let's assume the K'daai Destroyer wins combat by 5. Both the Skeletons AND the Warsphinx lose 5 additional wounds... resulting in a dead Warsphinx.

This is why you never intermix your animated constructs with soft targets like skeletons in a conjoined combat. Skeletons bleed combat resolution but are cheap and plentiful, so they can easily sustain the extra wounds due to unstable... however those extra wounds on the animated constructs hurt a lot.


Lizards of Renown said:
2) I was looking at what units I should add to my army now that this has broadened the kind of enemy I'll by playing and I started looking at Carrion. They look pretty useless being T4, W2 but no armour save or ward save. Have either of you used them successfully? If so, how?
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I've only used them in a couple of games and they did okay. I know some TK players swear by them (some even considering them to be among the best units in the TK army book).

Think of them as a flying 2 wound Ogre with no armour and costing only 24 points.

Pros:
  • fly (M10 and the ability to fly over and charge over units)
  • S4 & T4 with 3 attacks each will work wonders against many other skirmishers and war machine crew
  • can be healed easily (they are not animated constructs so they can be healed by our lore attribute as easily as you would heal skeletons)
  • 2 wounds each
Cons:
  • no save
  • Special choice (at opposed to Skeleton Horse Archers, who are core)
  • can't march fly 20"... because TK

They are the best skirmishing/chaff unit that we have. Per wound they cost less than Skeleton Horse Archers! In small numbers they act as great chaff and in larger numbers they pose a significant threat to opposing chaff, skirmishers and war machines.

If they were core, they would easily be my go to choice over the Horse Archers. They are faster and more mobile and are a much bigger offensive threat. However, as they are, they are competing with many of our other choices (and you know how much I love my Stalkers), while the Horse Archers come out of our core tax!
 
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Hi guys.

I'm plotting, so will probably end up with a whole bunch of questions, but this is first.

I had the idea to do an 18-strong Ushabti Deathstar against WoC and stick a Tomb Herald BSB with the Banner of the Undying Legion on a skeletal steed (so as to not slow down the unit with the M4).

Based on what I have read in the ARB, this spell does NOT have the limitation of 1 wound per phase as it is not from Lore of Nehekhara.

I have the idea this could work if I don't have any other characters in the unit, so as the Chaos units are forced to issue challenges, he would have to refuse and go to the back where he would be safe from attack.

Any thoughts on this?

Cheers.
 
Lizards of Renown said:
Based on what I have read in the ARB, this spell does NOT have the limitation of 1 wound per phase as it is not from Lore of Nehekhara.
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That is correct.

Lizards of Renown said:
I have the idea this could work if I don't have any other characters in the unit, so as the Chaos units are forced to issue challenges, he would have to refuse and go to the back where he would be safe from attack.
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A clever strategy. That will work nicely if the Chaos units have champions/characters in them. I like it.

The only suggestion I would make would be to replace the BSB with a Necrotect instead. For the cost of a bit of movement, the Necrotect will give your Ushabti deathstar a greater boost:
  • hatred
  • 6+ regeneration save
Also, those abilities do not require power dice and cannot be dispelled. If you want them boosted even further, you always have the Ramhotep option available as well.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
That is correct.



A clever strategy. That will work nicely if the Chaos units have champions/characters in them. I like it.

The only suggestion I would make would be to replace the BSB with a Necrotect instead. For the cost of a bit of movement, the Necrotect will give your Ushabti deathstar a greater boost:
  • hatred
  • 6+ regeneration save
Also, those abilities do not require power dice and cannot be dispelled. If you want them boosted even further, you always have the Ramhotep option available as well.
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:D

I think I'll stick with the BSB and the BotUL. I'll be shot at several times by Hellcannons and I have a bad feeling about the multiple wounds rule. I'd rather recover the wounds and have an additional +1 to combat resolution (and no hindrance to movement) than re-roll to hit in first round (I think, but we'll see whenever I can actually get this game to happen).
 
Lizards of Renown said:
:D

I think I'll stick with the BSB and the BotUL. I'll be shot at several times by Hellcannons and I have a bad feeling about the multiple wounds rule. I'd rather recover the wounds and have an additional +1 to combat resolution (and no hindrance to movement) than re-roll to hit in first round (I think, but we'll see whenever I can actually get this game to happen).
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You do love that banner!
 
Does the Necrolith Colossus "Unstoppable Assault" also apply to wounds caused by it's Thunderstomps?
 
Basically, I'm brainstorming for a second hammer as between my Regenerating Deathstar Ushabti idea and using all of my Stalkers, I've used up my Special points allowance.

I was thinking maybe if I had two Necrolith Colossi with additional hand weapons working together it might work... 10 attacks and 2D6 S6 thunderstomps... any unsaved wounds generates another attack... T6...
 
Lizards of Renown said:
Does the Necrolith Colossus "Unstoppable Assault" also apply to wounds caused by it's Thunderstomps?
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Lizards of Renown said:
Well, it's likely I'll like it a lot less after the battle ;) we'll see how my theory-hammer works out.
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I guess we'll see. The problem is that you don't get a bonus to cast when casting a bound spell, meanwhile your opponent is free to use his level 4 to dispel it.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
View attachment 83869

I guess we'll see. The problem is that you don't get a bonus to cast when casting a bound spell, meanwhile your opponent is free to use his level 4 to dispel it.
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Thanks for the question answer (whoops! Should have gone to Specsavers!)

On the Bound Spell point, I hadn't thought of that... Hmmm..... Makes the idea a lot less appealing as I would need to do two dice to have a good chance of pulling it off, but he could dispel with one dice...

He could also fail to dispel it with a 1 or 2 if he did that and then leave himself susceptible to the rest of the magic phase...

I'll keep the Necrotect idea in my back pocket either way as a solid solution (as even with making it M4, re-rolling all first round to hit rolls and having a 6+ regen save is not bad at all...)
 
@NIGHTBRINGER I really like the Necrotect idea, but can't get past the concept of my huge Ushabti unit being blown to smithereens by a dual Hellcannon set-up before they get to combat...

I'm planning to use Stalkers to counter and also use my Light Council's Banishment (boosted version is 48" so will be able to reach) to try to counter, but Stalkers will arrive EARLIEST turn two and (as you pointed out) the Banishment spell can be Dispel-Scrolled to nothingness.

My concept with the mounted BSB with "my favourite banner" ( ;) ) was the counter for this to ensure the destrutive horde actually makes it to combat intact...

Thoughts?
 
Yeah, hellcannons is a problem indeed, as they will concentrate against your ushabti before the arrival of the stalkers.

however, we can try to work around it:
1 - the spell tied to the banner MUST be stopped, so you can work around it, casting useful things that will go unanswered because your oppo needs the power dice to negate the banner.
2 - is it feasible to field some target saturation for those cannons? catapults and a hierotitan can be useful, and will force your opponent to choose. And the stalkers are right behind the corner.
 
Lizards of Renown said:
@NIGHTBRINGER I really like the Necrotect idea, but can't get past the concept of my huge Ushabti unit being blown to smithereens by a dual Hellcannon set-up before they get to combat...

I'm planning to use Stalkers to counter and also use my Light Council's Banishment (boosted version is 48" so will be able to reach) to try to counter, but Stalkers will arrive EARLIEST turn two and (as you pointed out) the Banishment spell can be Dispel-Scrolled to nothingness.

My concept with the mounted BSB with "my favourite banner" ( ;) ) was the counter for this to ensure the destrutive horde actually makes it to combat intact...

Thoughts?
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My opinion remains the same, the banner and the BSB are a waste of points. How many points are you playing at? By the time you buy the Tomb Herald, upgrade him to BSB, buy the banner and give him his mount, you're looking at a cool 135pts!!
  • That's a Casket of Souls right there
  • That's the majority of the cost of a Liche High Priest
  • That's the majority of the cost of a Hierotitan.
Of those selections, I sure as heck wouldn't be going for the Tomb Herald BSB with Standard of the Undying Legion. You're essentially paying 135 points for a near defenseless level 0 wizard with one spell. You could pretty much pick up an extra 3 Ushabti for that cost in order to soak up the damage... and they don't suck up valuable power dice.

Also, it's an all your eggs in a single basket type approach. The 18 strong unit of Ushabti already costs 900 points. 30 more for command. That is already quite the points commitment, but then you have to add 135 more for the BSB. That's a lot of points in a slow moving unit that can easily be redirected, while the rest of your army is pieced up.

If you want to protect the unit, you have Neru's incantation of protection (which is cast by your level 4!). Or Pha's Protection. Or even Birona's Timewarp to get them into combat sooner.


That said, this is only my personal opinion. If you like the BSB+banner, then you should definitely field it. Give it a try and maybe it works out for you. People have different play-styles, strategies and list preferences. All I can say is that if it were me, I wouldn't field it.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
My opinion remains the same, the banner and the BSB are a waste of points. How many points are you playing at? By the time you buy the Tomb Herald, upgrade him to BSB, buy the banner and give him his mount, you're looking at a cool 135pts!!
  • That's a Casket of Souls right there
  • That's the majority of the cost of a Liche High Priest
  • That's the majority of the cost of a Hierotitan.
Of those selections, I sure as heck wouldn't be going for the Tomb Herald BSB with Standard of the Undying Legion. You're essentially paying 135 points for a near defenseless level 0 wizard with one spell. You could pretty much pick up an extra 3 Ushabti for that cost in order to soak up the damage... and they don't suck up valuable power dice.

Also, it's an all your eggs in a single basket type approach. The 18 strong unit of Ushabti already costs 900 points. 30 more for command. That is already quite the points commitment, but then you have to add 135 more for the BSB. That's a lot of points in a slow moving unit that can easily be redirected, while the rest of your army is pieced up.

If you want to protect the unit, you have Neru's incantation of protection (which is cast by your level 4!). Or Pha's Protection. Or even Birona's Timewarp to get them into combat sooner.


That said, this is only my personal opinion. If you like the BSB+banner, then you should definitely field it. Give it a try and maybe it works out for you. People have different play-styles, strategies and list preferences. All I can say is that if it were me, I wouldn't field it.
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All great points (and to be honest I'd forgotten about the ward save spell).

I also have to confront the fact that (like all spell related things). It's very possible that it will be a total failure :(

I've been thinking about some diversionary tactics:

Maybe a unit of Horse Archers deploys near the Hellcannons and then Vanguards to right in front of them. Either they lose control and charge in which case they can't shoot first turn, or another unit charges and also blocks line of sight or he tries to shoot anyways and has a much lesser chance of hitting on target.

I'm still brainstorming along this line, but the Necrotect will definitely be with the Ushabti. I ran combat simulation with and without and it literally over doubles the wound potentials for the first phase of combat.

I was thinking about using the special character who only costs a bit more, but adds frenzy (basically +6 attacks) and will give one of my constructs re-rollable armour saves.

Anyways, these are just bullpen thoughts. I have lots of time on my hands to think about it unfortunately... :( at least the UK's NHS is now starting vaccine testing which will hopefully make things easier soon.
 
I play tested using my Screaming Skull Catapults and the literally missed every single time (for a simulated three turns in a row).

Is this everyone else's experience with them?

I was thinking of taking them over large units of archers for my upcoming... [sigh] RELATIVELY speaking upcoming Chaos fight as they don't need to roll to
hit and at least one person will get the S9 hit with multiple wounds.
 
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