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AoS NEW *rumor*

ArtoriusaurusRex said:
I played AoS 3 today...super interesting. Reading the rules did not do it justice, I'll say. And GW absolutely made the game much more engaging and constantly so.

Hero and monster actions were super fun and very impactful. Soft buffs to coalesced with mysterious terrain being the normal 6 options and with everyone wanting more heroes and monsters, scaly skin matters a lot more often. My opponents were so frustrated with it lol

The Ghur rule where the player who goes second on round three is game-changing. I'd have won everything off of that except for one tiny misdeployed character...oh well


Our points hikes hurt, there's no two ways about it. Especially since I was against soulblight who saw none. But I think Seraphon is in a healthy place overall. We're not domineering anymore. Neither are we garbage, let nobody tell you such.


Most importantly, it's fun. It's really fun once you get the flow.
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Would you mind posting a list?
 
Kilvakar said:
Were you able to win?
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Sadly not, but that was my fault. I could have won once by strategy, and then later I could have won again by luck. Both failed, unfortunately

Kilvakar said:
What is the Ghur rule? Is that the objective removal rumor?
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Yes it is. It seems we will be playing in Ghur for the whole year however. War of the Beast indeed.

Kilvakar said:
Glad to hear you enjoyed it. Care to share some details?
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Sure! It was 2k of Koatl's Claw vs Vyrkos Dynasty. I rolled high on the Attacker/Defender roll-off, and I chose attacker so I could get my realmshaper. Mysterious Terrain rolls got a lot of Mystical and Damned terrain, and being Coalesced, I claimed most of it for myself instantly, so that felt nice.

I had a 4 drop army (Battle Regiment and Command Entourage), and Soulblight had many many drops. I was planning to go second but I saw an opening and went first.

Kroak got Celestial Equilibrium off and then miscast on Stellar Tempest lol. He took two mortal wounds, nbd. Did not die. Losing 3 casts on turn one sucked though

Skink Priest who was originally meant to babysit a Bastiladon instead gave him +1 to hit, and run, shoot, charge. Seer gave him 3d6 charge. And I auto-6 ran him up, then shot and charge a VLoZD who was guarding an objective alone with a character. He didn't kill him or anything but the damn thing survived 3 combat phases after that, keeping the VLoZD busy for a *very* long time. Scaly Skin was actually super clutch here.

Hero actions and monster actions were super fun and engaging, command ability planning was super strategic. Roar is as crucial as you think, maybe more.

Ultimately I got ground down by zombies and another VLoZD who my scarvet carno was just not quite able to kill. It had the Amulet of Destiny and that just made it astronomically tougher.

Belladama unbinding kroak a couple times didn't help matters either, but Kroak still did a good job, including his own unbinding all over the place, and charging straight into a giant blob of zombies and annihilating them with damage and battleshock lol

A block of saurus warriors did no respectable damage, but they were tough old cookies at least, and that helped. Scaly skin actually mattered a lot on them too, believe it or not.


Ultimately I got ground down. My gambit to win the game failed when my Knights couldn't kill the VLoZD that the Bastiladon had been tying down. If my starpriest had been there to give them venom, I'd have won the game because I would've held 3 and had Ghur eat the 4th objective (mission stated you win instantly if you hold all objectives starting round 3).

If I'd deployed my starpriest on the correct side of the board, the Knights absolutely would've killed their target. They just couldn't punch through All Out Defense without venom. Live and learn.


For what it's worth, I was very happy with Koatl's Claw. Getting free +1 to hit goes a long way, especially when it frees you up to do All Out Defense and Roar instead of Titanic Duel or what-have-you.

Coalesced in general feels quite a bit better now. We don't even lose out on regiment leadership bonuses.

Oh, and Skink Wizards (especially the Starseer) with the Arcane Tome are *Chef's Kiss*

There were just too many zombies, and they came back at the worst times.

Tyranitar said:
Would you mind posting a list?
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Uhh, sorry, it was on paper and I tossed it. I had Kroak, a Scarvet, a couple skink heroes, some guard, some knights, some warriors, and a bastiladon. Not the most competitive stuff, but they did good and could have won!
 
Thanks for the details! It's a bit funny that you basically say you lost due to too many zombies. I guess Soulblight was designed to still be able to use hordes, I really wish our Saurus Warriors weren't garbage now.

I think Thunder Lizards is going to be the way to go, but our monsters are still weaker than most everyone else's and with everyone's monsters getting buffed it sounds like we'll have a hard time killing them still.

I'm sure that we'll find a way to make things work with the new rules until our 3e book comes out, but I have a feeling that it's going to be rough, especially against armies designed to work with 3e like Stormcast, Lumineth and Soulblight. At least it won't be like the gap between 1e and 2e where we only had a chance of winning by flooding the board with Skinks that did nothing but die and block enemies with their bodies :P
 
Kilvakar said:
Thanks for the details! It's a bit funny that you basically say you lost due to too many zombies. I guess Soulblight was designed to still be able to use hordes, I really wish our Saurus Warriors weren't garbage now.

I think Thunder Lizards is going to be the way to go, but our monsters are still weaker than most everyone else's and with everyone's monsters getting buffed it sounds like we'll have a hard time killing them still.

I'm sure that we'll find a way to make things work with the new rules until our 3e book comes out, but I have a feeling that it's going to be rough, especially against armies designed to work with 3e like Stormcast, Lumineth and Soulblight. At least it won't be like the gap between 1e and 2e where we only had a chance of winning by flooding the board with Skinks that did nothing but die and block enemies with their bodies :p
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The Saurus Warriors ultimately did okay.

They're a nice tough target with All Out Defense or Mystic Shield and scaly skin. Much more than skinks now. And we have CP and spells to spare. I think it's important to remember that skinks are going to die if sneezed on now.

Warriors are definitely our toughest "anvil" (lol) Battleline for the points, I guess. And 32 mms have one thing going for them, they take up a lot of space and make it hard for opponents to approach objectives.

It's not what I want out of them, but at least it's something useful. And hey, four attacks per model in coalesced is not terrible even if you can't get them all in.

They held long enough to give me a chance to seal a win, I just failed.



I think our transition might be slightly rough for a couple months while we figure things out, but our book is still damn good and we have everything we need to win.
 
Erta Wanderer said:
shrug off damage makes him weaker but he still does well
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I just don't know if he worth the money. The model is so awesome and I will eventually buy him, but regarding playing him...
Same thing with Realmshaper Engine. The model is awesome, but on table it's kinda frustrating to just give your opponent free bunker.
 
Dreamkeeper said:
I just don't know if he worth the money. The model is so awesome and I will eventually buy him, but regarding playing him...
Same thing with Realmshaper Engine. The model is awesome, but on table it's kinda frustrating to just give your opponent free bunker.
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you don't have to run kroak slanns work almost as well.
as for the RSE if you place it right it's good even if you don't get it. it's a big blocker for deployment and most people don't benefit from it.
 
Dreamkeeper said:
So, how is new Kroak playing? Is he any good now with the new rule of "shrug off dmg each phase"?
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I've played a couple games since I got him, and he's been super good and lived the whole game every time. But he's been very good against melee armies that just can't shoot him down early, or reach him easily
 
ArtoriusaurusRex said:
I played AoS 3 today...super interesting. Reading the rules did not do it justice, I'll say. And GW absolutely made the game much more engaging and constantly so.

Hero and monster actions were super fun and very impactful. Soft buffs to coalesced with mysterious terrain being the normal 6 options and with everyone wanting more heroes and monsters, scaly skin matters a lot more often. My opponents were so frustrated with it lol

The Ghur rule where the player who goes second on round three is game-changing. I'd have won everything off of that except for one tiny misdeployed character...oh well


Our points hikes hurt, there's no two ways about it. Especially since I was against soulblight who saw none. But I think Seraphon is in a healthy place overall. We're not domineering anymore. Neither are we garbage, let nobody tell you such.


Most importantly, it's fun. It's really fun once you get the flow.
Click to expand...

Very nice to hear that you had a good time with the new rules! I was very hesitant at first, especially with the CAs that does the same thing and won't stack (oldblood, Coalesced charge +1 and all out attack for example) but as you said they fill functions by allowing you to hand out +1 to several units.

Arcane tome and amulet of destiny sounds very good for seraphon. Love to get more spells from the skink lore.
 
Don't know if it's been posted here before, but I found a good article regarding coherency at ruleshammer (they have several covering the different parts of the new ruleset).

https://www.goonhammer.com/ruleshammer-age-of-sigmar-3-0-coherency-rules/

Conga-lines for 25mm bases are still legal, if the bases are touching (1 inch = 25,4 mm) but of course rules as intended might not be the same as rules as written for coherency. We'll see if they faq this.

Some of the examples in this article seems very annoying if your opponent starts messing around with. But some of them opens up for some interesting setups where you can leave a tail from a large unit - if you think it's worth the risk. I guess that if you play casual it might just feel stupid to micro-manage like this but for competitive players I think it's essential to know what your opponents might mess around with (I only play casual, so I probably won't bother).
 
ArtoriusaurusRex said:
The Saurus Warriors ultimately did okay.

They're a nice tough target with All Out Defense or Mystic Shield and scaly skin. Much more than skinks now. And we have CP and spells to spare. I think it's important to remember that skinks are going to die if sneezed on now.

I think our transition might be slightly rough for a couple months while we figure things out, but our book is still damn good and we have everything we need to win.
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I played two 2k games this weekend using vs KO using 3.0 rules. We're both new players and used the same lists twice with new battleplans from GBH21. Game 1: First Blood. Game 2: The Vice.

Seraphon: Coalesced Thunderlizards
KO: Barrak Zifflin

Key points I took from my games
  • It wasn't too difficult to work with the new CAs during the game, they made it more fun!
  • The new battleplans are fun!
  • The way to earn VP is great. You don't have to dominate a board to win.
  • Grand Strategy "Beastmaster" is hopefully a solid way to gain +3 VP in a Thunderlizard
  • Kroak is MVP 1 - in Game 2 he did 20 mortal wounds in one turn, it was crazy
  • Thunderlizard Basti is MVP 2. x2 shooting HoG, All Out Attack and Serpent Staff all on Basti for +1+1+1. The +1 wound triumph also great to crack a unit in a clutch round
  • Monster Stomp is such a handy d3 MW <3
  • Starpriest HoG spell and Serpent staff are just super
  • Plenty of CP with up to 3 from Kroak and the +1 CP from heroic action on AB, never ran out and often finished with one. They were wasted!
  • Reploy CA is great, my opponent intended to focus my Basti with cannons on all ships but I moved him out of range of most using redeploy. Can see how an alpha striker target for shooting or charging can be counteracted by this. It could ruin an entire turn strategy for the opponent!
  • Opponent never used Unleash Hell once! Used the CP for All out Defense or other CA which were deemed more important. KO did lack about 1 CP per turn though so expect Unleash Hell to be used other matches. If you want to save a CP for Unleash Hell there may not much left of that unit so maybe All Out Defense has more utility?
Other
  • The Guard an AB performed excellently and are a must take for me now if I bring a Slann or Kroak. Even though I failed a turn of casting (double 1s when casting celestial deliverance) and wasn't in range on turn one for Celestial Deliverance, he still did great damage
  • It's going to take some time to utilise the Trog to project power, partly down to KO flying high early in the game though, so projecting Kroak was just tougher in general
  • Trog is not great in combat, just useful to chip in with some damage. Handy to cast Mystic Shield
  • with Mystic Shield, Gift of Heavens, All of Defence we have great +1 saves, plus scaly skin and +2 to monster wounds. 6+ from AB also. Nice and tough!
  • Stegadon bow can spike nicely, very tough unit with scaly skin and 2 extra wounds and a +1 save. Didn't get to charge much with him but see how it would be great also
  • Scar Vet on CO was fine, I'd like more damage from him but gave the +1 to hit CA to the Basti which was way more useful
  • Skinks are trash as 10, just to absorb some minor attacks by opponent so they don't target useful units
  • Knights are a fine backline objective babysitting unit
  • I may another Starpriest as can see them being targeted by armies since she's far more killable than say, Kroak. She wasn't targeted in these games but I did have her behind or near Kroak/the Guards as much as possible just in case. It means I needed a bit of a deathstar since units like the Basti need to be close for buffs
  • I could have just used "rally" at the end of the turn on guards, knights or skinks. but forgot!
  • I think we need to stick around on the board some to react to shifting objectives, e.g. The Vice battleplan changes objective locations. Coalesced and Thunderlizard match up to that well
  • Wonder if I should drop a ScarVet on Carno plus 10 skinks for another Basti/Steg + endless spell(s)
  • Wondering I have too few units if I need to contest far reaching objectives in a game. It would be tough to hold more than 50% of game objectives, but with the new VP system I'm unsure we need to :)
  • Wonder if I should give Arcane Tome to the Trog so it can cast Hand of Glory and allow the Starpriest to cast Blazing Starlight instead
  • Need to be careful how we manage the number of CP we have and whether to keep any for your opponents turn if you are going first, plus which hero has used the Finest Hour Heroic Action!
In case you wanted to know lists or the games:

Seraphon: Kroak, 1 ScarVet on Carno, Oracle on Trog, AB, Starpriest, 5 Guard, 10 Skinks, 5 Knights, 1 Steg, 1 Basti. Took the 5+ war for the Carno and gave the Fusil to the Trog. HoG for starpriest.

KO: Admiral, Khemist, Endrinmaster, x2 10 Arkanauts, 10 Thunders, Ironclad, x2 Frigate, Gunhauler, spell in bottle - Gnashing Gnaws

Game summary: Both games were won by Seraphon comfortably 24-21 and 17-8. KO had a big lead into turn 3 in the Game 1 but I had done so much damage by then KO were tabled by turn 5 and I was always going to catch up in VP. Made a mistake in not doing more to contest an objective in turn 3 but recovered fine by turn 5. Game 2 he teleported his full force to my backline on turn 2 (minus x2 Arkanaut units) to focus on Kroak but thanks to Guard, AB & All Out Defense CA Kroak took just 1 wound (!). KO were finished after that.

Hope this helps anyone like me!
 
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New points are just a kick in the nuts to Seraphon. While it's true that most armies got increases across the board, a lot of them had units go down in price. We didn't. Every single unit went up, some by *way* too much. There's no reason for an Oldblood on Carno and a Troglodon to be 270 points! The Stegadon Chief is also way too expensive, and the point hikes to Warriors, Terradons and Ripperdactyls on top of already nerfing their unit sizes and coherency just make bringing them an active detriment to you now.

I do think that we'll be fine, at least for a while. The powercreep for the new battletomes is definitely going to hurt if we have to wait as long as we did the last time around. But I'm just really annoyed with GW saying that AoS 3 is all about "variety and balance" when what it actually does is just force you to stop using some unit types to spam others instead.
 
Kilvakar said:
New points are just a kick in the nuts to Seraphon. While it's true that most armies got increases across the board, a lot of them had units go down in price. We didn't. Every single unit went up, some by *way* too much. There's no reason for an Oldblood on Carno and a Troglodon to be 270 points! The Stegadon Chief is also way too expensive, and the point hikes to Warriors, Terradons and Ripperdactyls on top of already nerfing their unit sizes and coherency just make bringing them an active detriment to you now.

I do think that we'll be fine, at least for a while. The powercreep for the new battletomes is definitely going to hurt if we have to wait as long as we did the last time around. But I'm just really annoyed with GW saying that AoS 3 is all about "variety and balance" when what it actually does is just force you to stop using some unit types to spam others instead.
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yep we have the 4th highest price hikes over all.
 
Considering we were possibly the strongest faction in the game, or at least contending for it, we'll be fine with a couple extra price hikes. Even if we sunk as far as....B tier


DUN DUN DUUUUUUN!!!!!!
 
lol! I'd say we're probably lower A at the moment ;) Like a lot of people are saying, our base rules are still really good. It's more the philosophy behind 3rd edition that I'm not 100% sold on. But I do think we'll have a harder time dealing with Lumineth and Soulblight, as well as armies we know are getting updated soon and armies that already have MSU that work well.

I guess we'll just have to hope and pray that when our new battletome does come out it's not a revenge book like Slaanesh...
 
Tombomb7 said:
  • Knights are a fine backline objective babysitting unit
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This is something I've been toying with in my head with list building. Running Kroak, EotG, Scar-vet Carno, Starpriest, 2x5 Knights, 1 Salamander squad, 5 guard, Basti, and a Stegadon.

I plan on using the knights as either objectives holders or as walls if something super dangerous but is a big bundle of points like Kragnos, is coming. Since in squads of 5 they can space out long ways and cover ~15in of board space due to being 5 mans on 60mm ovals. While still having some combat power if an opportunity appears and they are in range for a quick Serpent Staff to boost their damage given their rather hefty 36 attacks for a rather cheap squad. Plus they are not the worst target for All Out Attack in combat phase.

Though I do feel like the thing I'm most wanting to use them for is as you say holding objectives and trying to run around the field to capture things later in the game as Ghur starts to eat the objectives and things get a little crazy. With all the big dinos and Kroak I don't see enemies focusing on them. Which I feel will help to have them stay relatively fresh into most late games where their shortcomings start to matter less.
 
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