8th Ed. The Best Monstrous Infantry unit in all of Warhammer

[Lizards of Renown]

I certainly understand where you're both coming from, but unlike Ogre Charge and other charge bonuses that happen only in the first turn (and only when the unit charges which isn't always guaranteed), 'From the Mists' has a chance of applying in any turn if the owning player successfully casts it and the opposing player fails to dispel it.

Personally I will choose to keep running with it for this reason, though I will still average out the result with the outcome that happens without the spell to balance it out. Additionally, I can include an alternative score purely totting up the results of the latter matches for those of you who would discount the Bound Spell, to give you an idea of how the Fimir fare at their worst as well as an average.



4 more matches, and after this one, three

Next up, it's an all-out Ogre tribal punch-up - the Maneaters are fighting the Ogre Bulls!

View attachment 113363

And most likely to be expected, the Maneaters butcher three Bulls before they even get to fight, and while their returning blows fell two of their better-travelled brethren, it was always going to be difficult for the Bulls to inflict as many wounds as 11 on a unit with superior Initative, Weapon Skill and Poisoned Attacks. Add to that the Maneaters' extra point of resolution given to them by the War Banner, and the Bulls automatically run, giving the Maneaters another well-deserved one-round Massive Victory!

View attachment 113364

Their fourth consecutive Major Victory in a row brings the Maneaters up to a mighty 8 points and into sole first place, while the Bulls' Major Loss knocks them down to join the Bile Trolls at -4.

Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!!

Yeah, this one is a foregone conclusion. Special unit versus it's OWN core unit? No contest really.

Nice to see my horse at the head of the pack! Lord knows for how long though.

 

[The Great White Lizard]

The thing is a bound spell is an interesting one. You get no wizard bonus to casting, so any wizard who wants to dispel it has a definite advantage.

My experience with spells in general is that 75% of the time they get dispelled or don't come off. I'd be interested in anyone who has experience with bound spells being used once the opponent has used up all his dispel dice.

Maybe they are gotten off more often than I've experienced personally.

Somehow I think not though.

Yeah that was what I thought reading the BRB, but since I've never actually seen one used in game somehow I couldn't be sure.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

It's about time we had our next matchup, and today the River Trolls are getting ready to battle the Crypt Horrors!

Key Rules in Play:
Crypt Horrors: Poisoned Attacks, Regeneration (5+), Unbreakable, Unstable
River Trolls: Regeneration (4+), River Troll



And the Crypt Horrors salvage whatever aspect of their Ghoulish pride was dented by their recent encounter with the Fireborn by using their superior Initiative and their lower points value per model to real advantage - despite needing 5s to hit the River Trolls, they manage to kill one before it can attack back and blunt the River Trolls' return punch enough that their additional rank was able to win them the combat by 1, enough to send the Trolls running of course due to their terrible Leadership. A very similar story to the battle between the River Trolls and the Chaos Trolls, suggesting the latter and the Crypt Horrors will be very well-matched foes when it is time for them to duel.



That win sees the Crypt Horrors rise to 4 points alongside the Yhetees and snapping at the heels of the four leading units, while the River Trolls drop to join the Fimir and Ironguts at -1 point.

Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!!

 

[Lizards of Renown]

It's about time we had our next matchup, and today the River Trolls are getting ready to battle the Crypt Horrors!

Key Rules in Play:
Crypt Horrors: Poisoned Attacks, Regeneration (5+), Unbreakable, Unstable
River Trolls: Regeneration (4+), River Troll

View attachment 113600

And the Crypt Horrors salvage whatever aspect of their Ghoulish pride was dented by their recent encounter with the Fireborn by using their superior Initiative and their lower points value per model to real advantage - despite needing 5s to hit the River Trolls, they manage to kill one before it can attack back and blunt the River Trolls' return punch enough that their additional rank was able to win them the combat by 1, enough to send the Trolls running of course due to their terrible Leadership. A very similar story to the battle between the River Trolls and the Chaos Trolls, suggesting the latter and the Crypt Horrors will be very well-matched foes when it is time for them to duel.

View attachment 113601

That win sees the Crypt Horrors rise to 4 points alongside the Yhetees and snapping at the heels of the four leading units, while the River Trolls drop to join the Fimir and Ironguts at -1 point.

Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!!

Crypt Horrors are about right now on rankings I think. A definitely scary force to be reckoned with on the battlefield.

Question: How does 5+ to hit end up being 0.17? Should this not be something like 0.33? The later maths all works out, I'm just curious on the formula.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Question: How does 5+ to hit end up being 0.17? Should this not be something like 0.33? The later maths all works out, I'm just curious on the formula.

Because Crypt Horrors have Poisoned Attacks, those hit rolls that score a '6', of which there are 1/6 of their total attacks, are resolved separately from the remainder of their successful hits, which in this case is just the other 1/6 of attacks that would score a '5'.

 

[Lizards of Renown]

Because Crypt Horrors have Poisoned Attacks, those hit rolls that score a '6', of which there are 1/6 of their total attacks, are resolved separately from the remainder of their successful hits, which in this case is just the other 1/6 of attacks that would score a '5'.

Righto! Cheers matey.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Time for our daily bust-up of Monstrous Infantry units, and today two more of our top contenders duke it out - the Chaos Trolls are fighting the Vargheists!

Key Rules in Play:
Chaos Trolls: Extra Hand Weapons, Regeneration (4+), Troll Vomit
Vargheists: Frenzy



And the Chaos Trolls duly thump the Vargheists into the ground, Frenzy and superior Weapon Skill proving no match for Regeneration, additional hand weapons and a cheap points cost - despite the Vargheists being able to strike first and hit and wound on 3s, their wound output is halved by the Trolls' tough regenerative skin, meaning though they killed two trolls, the remaining 6 had no trouble in exploiting the Vargheistss complete lack of armour, allowing the Chaos Trolls to win the combat and chip a couple of additional wounds off the man-bats thanks to Instability, killing a third model and knocking the Vargheists onto the back foot. Repeat a couple of times and you've already got the picture - a considerably Massive Victory!


That result sees the Chaos Trolls go stomping on to join the Maneaters at the top of the tree on a maximum 8 points, while the Vargheists fall below the Yhetees and Crypt Horrors but still hold a respectable 4th place with 3 points.


Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!!

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Sad to see there's been no discussion about the last match, but then with the Chaos Trolls winning so handsomely (probably as expected by many) I don't imagine it warrants much

Anyway, onto our next battle! Two more higher-ranking regiments go toe-to-toe to see just who's da best - the K'daai are taking on the Skin Wolves!

Key Rules in Play:
K'daai Fireborn: Blazing Body, Bound Fire Daemon, Flaming Attacks, Unbreakable, Unstable
Skin Wolves: Always Strikes First (Mark of Slaanesh), Regeneration (5+), Frenzy



And one round was all it took! Despite the Skin Wolves going first and needing only 3s plus re-rolls to hit the K'daai, the Bound Fire Daemons' innate special rule forced them to re-roll all their successful wound rolls, made worse by the K'daai's 4+ Ward Save halving their damage output so that only a single K'daai could be slain, before the rest with their Blazing Bodies powered through the Skin Wolves' low Toughness (for Monstrous Infantry) and Regeneration (or lack of thanks to Flaming Attacks) to secure a comfortable combat win, which turns into a major win for the entire bout as, just like many other units in this contest, the Skin Wolves' average Leadership comes back to bite them.


Probably as expected, after this penultimate fight of Round 4 the K'daai join the 'Clean Sweep Crew' alongside the Maneaters and Chaos Trolls on a maximum 8, while the Skin Wolves drop to 0 points but at this stage do not lose their current place in the tourney, because all the units below them in the contest are on a negative score (though this may change tomorrow at the resolution of the final battle for this round).


Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!!

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

@Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl , quick question on how you calculated the points and number of models...



Skin Wolves cost 45 points per model, plus 10 points each for the Mark of Slaanesh, for a total of 55 points per model. You have them listed at 21 starting wounds, so I'm assuming 7 models.

7*55 = 385 points


The Fireborn are also 55 points per model, so I think they should start with the same number of models as the Skin Wolves. 7 models, at a total points cost of 385. 14 starting wounds.


I'm guessing that you may have forgotten to factor in the cost of the Mark of Slaanesh upgrade. If so, is this the case in the Skin Wolves' previous matchups? It might make a difference in some of those other contests.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

I'm guessing that you may have forgotten to factor in the cost of the Mark of Slaanesh upgrade. If so, is this the case in the Skin Wolves' previous matchups? It might make a difference in some of those other contests.

That is exactly what I've done!

Thanks for pointing this out. You're right in that with the Mark of Slaanesh this would take them up to 55, meaning there should be 6 models in the unit rather than 7.

However, having redone all their matches with one less model in the Skin Wolf unit (and updated the corresponding posts for everyone to see), I've noticed none of the results have changed in the long run - the Skin Wolves still win Major Victories against the Ogre Bulls and Fimir and suffer Massive Losses at the hands of the Crypt Horrors and the Fireborn. One change of note was in the match against the Ogre Bulls, where the reduced number of Skin Wolves meant the Ogres avoided losing more than two models and were able to count an extra rank, making them Steadfast and allowing them to persist into another round, but even with a second chance they failed to inflict enough wounds to deprive the Skin Wolves of their Massive Victory before running away.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Yes folks...





This is the big one...





It's the final battle of the fourth round of the Best Monstrous Infantry in Warhammer competition!




Today, stitched mutant Skaven monstrosities take on sludge monsters from a little-known bog - the Rat Ogres are fighting the Fenbeasts!

Key Rules in Play:
Rat Ogres: Frenzy, Beast Pack
Fenbeasts: Always Strikes Last, Frenzy (through Born of Bloodmarsh), Regeneration (4+), Unbreakable, Unstable

No, I'm not joking, it's definitely a result I don't think many people were expecting! The Fenbeasts, serial poor-performers so far in this tournament, not only shrug off the initial attacks of the Rat Ogres with their Regeneration and Toughness 5, with not a single one dying, but hit back harder, killing one of the beasts and leaving their terrible Leadership to do the rest.

Let us update the scores:


And here's the scoreboard at the end of Round 4:


That humiliation sees the Rat Ogres stoop to the level of the Ogre Bulls and the Bile Trolls, while the Fenbeasts take a mighty leap to join the Skin Wolves at a net points total of 0. We already have some clear contenders for first place in the form of the Maneaters, Chaos Trolls and K'daai, and I don't think the Chaos Ogres can avoid ending up the ultimate losers of the contest, but it's all to play for for the other units, and as we've just seen with the Fenbeasts beating the Rat Ogres, anything can happen.

Thoughts? Concerns? Rooting for any Underdogs? Discussion!!!

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

This is shaping up nicely. It will be interesting to see where things end up. Some contestants have had a fairly easy ride so far, opponent-wise, while others have been through the gauntlet.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Time for Round 5 to begin!

Like in Round 3, I will be picking combatants based upon how well/terribly they have fared in the table, so we shall start with the current two biggest losers in the contest, the Kroxigors and the Chaos Ogres!

Key Rules in Play:
Kroxigors: Great Weapons, Cold-blooded, Predatory Fighter, Scaly Skin (4+)
Chaos Ogres: Mark of Khorne (Frenzy), Additional Hand Weapons



And the entirety of Lustria Online shall cheer, as Team Krox get their first Major Victory of the contest! The crocodilians' superior armour helps blunt the offensive of the Khornate Chaos Ogres, and in return the superior Strength plus a little helping hand from Predatory Fighter helps the Kroxigors inflict enough wounds to win the combat by 1 (even with the Chaos Ogres having a command group, something I forgot to take into account in their other battles, but none of the end results change), which is enough to send the Ogres packing.

Let us update the scoreboard with this joyous result:


This win allows the Kroxigors to claw their way back up the rankings to join the Ushabti, with whom they spent most of the early days of this contest, while the Chaos Ogres continue to drop to -10 points. I wonder if I chose the wrong combo for them to be using against other Monstrous Infantry? @NIGHTBRINGER whittled the possible combos down to Mark of Khorne + Additional Hand Weapons vs Mark of Nurgle + Great Weapons, and I chose the former for this tournament, but the latter I can resolve additional matches for in a 'Bonus Match' thread after this main contest is over. I'll pitch them against every opponent here and see if they can redeem their race in any way for the utter bungling their Khorne-worshipping cousins are making of the tourney.

Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!!

 

[The Great White Lizard]

Huzzah! Hopefully the Kroxigors manage to get a few more good matches in, they've really been struggling.

 

[Killer Angel]

HORRAY!

 

[Imrahil]

Time for Round 5 to begin!

Like in Round 3, I will be picking combatants based upon how well/terribly they have fared in the table, so we shall start with the current two biggest losers in the contest, the Kroxigors and the Chaos Ogres!

Key Rules in Play:
Kroxigors: Great Weapons, Cold-blooded, Predatory Fighter, Scaly Skin (4+)
Chaos Ogres: Mark of Khorne (Frenzy), Additional Hand Weapons

View attachment 114032

And the entirety of Lustria Online shall cheer, as Team Krox get their first Major Victory of the contest! The crocodilians' superior armour helps blunt the offensive of the Khornate Chaos Ogres, and in return the superior Strength plus a little helping hand from Predatory Fighter helps the Kroxigors inflict enough wounds to win the combat by 1 (even with the Chaos Ogres having a command group, something I forgot to take into account in their other battles, but none of the end results change), which is enough to send the Ogres packing.

Let us update the scoreboard with this joyous result:
View attachment 114033

This win allows the Kroxigors to claw their way back up the rankings to join the Ushabti, with whom they spent most of the early days of this contest, while the Chaos Ogres continue to drop to -10 points. I wonder if I chose the wrong combo for them to be using against other Monstrous Infantry? @NIGHTBRINGER whittled the possible combos down to Mark of Khorne + Additional Hand Weapons vs Mark of Nurgle + Great Weapons, and I chose the former for this tournament, but the latter I can resolve additional matches for in a 'Bonus Match' thread after this main contest is over. I'll pitch them against every opponent here and see if they can redeem their race in any way for the utter bungling their Khorne-worshipping cousins are making of the tourney.

Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!!

YEAH KROXIGORS!!!

Grrr, Imrahil

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

they've really been struggling.

It's tough for them. They're can openers (anti-armour, anti-toughness), competing in a field without any cans.

Nice to see them get a win.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

It's tough for them. They're can openers (anti-armour, anti-toughness), competing in a field without any cans.

I'll be interested to see how they fare against the Tree Kin, because they probably do count as a 'can' by your definition - while they have a 6+ Ward Save most of their defensive capability is reliant upon their Toughness of 5 and 4+ Armour Save, which the Kroxigors with their Strength 7 attacks will be able to munch through, while they'll be getting a 5+ armour save in return against the Strength 4 attacks of the Tree Kin. They'll be striking last, but they did so against the Chaos Ogres, who arguably have more offensive output than the Tree Kin, and look what happened there.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Right, it's time for another match!

Continuing my way up the rankings, the next worst unit is the Bile Trolls, they already lost against the Ogre Bulls, so their next matchup is against the Rat Ogres!

Key Rules in Play:
Rat Ogres: Frenzy, Beast Pack
Bile Trolls: Mark of Nurgle, Poisoned Attacks, Regeneration (5+), Infected Vomit



And the humiliation endured by the Rat Ogres continues, as they are beaten by yet another unit believed to be below-average in quality. I have noticed that both the Maneaters and Ogre Bulls actually only beat the Bile Trolls thanks to Static Combat Resolution being able to turn the tide in their favour, but with no ability to take a Standard and not enough models to be able to count an additional rank after casualties are resolved means the Rat Ogres are relying entirely upon their damage output, which is not enough to surpass that of their Trollish enemies thanks to their high Toughness and Regeneration, and their low Leadership once again proves to be no help in keeping them in the combat, forcing them to pay The Troll TollTM and giving the Bile Trolls a second Massive Victory.



That result raises the Bile Trolls to join the Minotaurs and Tree Kin on -2 points apiece, while the Rat Ogres drop to take the Bile Trolls' former place as second-worst unit in the tourney, with a running total of -6.

Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!!

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

And it's time for yet another match! Today, Ogres decide to march into the Nehekharan deserts and have been ambushed by a sextuplet of animated statues, sounds familiar...

Key Rules in Play:
Ogre Bulls: Additional Hand Weapons
Ushabti: Great Weapons, 5+ Armour Save, Unbreakable, Unstable



And it's a landslide win for the Ogres! The Ushabti being forced to strike last really did it for them in this match, despite being able to hit on 3s and wound on 2s, because it allowed the Bulls to kill two straight off the bat and though two Ogres were also felled in return, their far greater numbers ensured the combat remained in their favour, rubbing salt into the Ushabti's stony wounds with additional wounds through Instability. The second round then dealt the killing blow, as another three of the statues were bashed apart, and the remaining one failed to kill even a single Ogre before crumbling to naught but dust. I certainly wonder what might have happened if Additional Hand Weapons had been chosen for this match, as the Ushabti would have been able to strike first, fight with more attacks and bring their superior Weapon Skill into play more effectively, meaning they could have killed a third Ogre and had a chance at breaking the unit despite its greater numbers, as the Skin Wolves and Maneaters already proved it's possible to do. Nevertheless, Great Weapons were chosen for this match, and the Great Weapon build lost. Badly.



This tragic loss for the Ushabti results in them having to swap places with the Ogre Bulls, the animated statues managing to stay one step ahead of the Rat Ogres and Chaos Ogres but otherwise languishing at near the bottom of the barrel with -5 points, while the Bulls rise to join the growing 'Minus Two club' of which the Tree Kin, Bile Trolls and Minotaurs are also members.

Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!!