8th Ed. The Path to Awesome - Tracking Every Game Ever

[NexS1]

You can play Lizardmen.
Woo hoo!
But they are cursed.
D'oh.
But they come with predatory fighter.
Woo hoo!
Predatory fighter is also cursed.
D'oh.

This.
Yes, very this.

 

[GCPD]

Note that the Slann goes in the second rank and doesn't take up any slots.

Yup where I surrender 2 TG supporting attacks for 1 Slann attack. Also if you run 5 wide (like I do) you can't put any of your characters except Chakax in the unit without the Slann suddenly popping to the front rank. It's ridiculous that we have to pay so much to trigger one of his special abilities and then it is kind of annoying to actually use said rules. Sort of the story of the lizardmen.

2 attacks isn't really all that significant but, if you are that worried about it, just go 6,8 or 10 wide. Then you maximise your front rank attacks as well which is more significant (and at 10 wide, you get the third rank too).

 

[hdctambien]

Saurus have 2 attacks to mitigate their low WS. With a 50% chance to but, they should score hit each. An elf with high WS and rerolls only has an 8/9 chance to score a hit.

Although, the elf supporting attacks also produce 8/9 hits each while saurus produce only 1/2 hits. The saurus attacks/WS were developed originally before supporting attacks existed. PF adds 1/12 more hits per model, which hardly makes up,for the lost attack in the front rank.

Edit: My point is you should think of the 2nd attack as more of a WS boost.. Unless you are actually boosting their WS in which case the 2nd attack becomes a pretty good advantage

 

[Sleboda]

I can appreciate taking a different view on the 2 Attacks thing, but I disagree that this is why they have 2 Attacks.

You pay the points you pay not for the chance of getting one hit, but because, unlike an elf, you can get 2 hits per model.

5 standard elves will only ever get 5 hits.
5 Saurus will get 5 on average, but have the potential for 10...or even 20 with PF.

That's what you pay for.


In a way, it's similar to blowpipes vs. javelins. Javelins are the more reliable attack for predictable results, but blowpipes can get twice the output. Sure, there are other issues with the 'pipes that make them blow in comparison to javelins, but I trust you get my point.

 

[KingCheops]

You pay the points you pay not for the chance of getting one hit, but because, unlike an elf, you can get 2 hits per model.

Funny enough this also makes the "steady and sure" combat infantry even more random. 5 wide front rank (no champ) has a standard deviation of 2.5 hits (EV = 5). Add Predatory onto that and it is very difficult to have any idea how well your infantry will perform in a combat (could be 0 hits could be 20). It means they always do better than normal (non-elf) core but will sometimes just explode and wipe units out.

The problem is that in a table-top miniatures game your #1 goal is to reduce risk and it means your elite pointed Saurus should only ever be used against non-elite pointed infantry. It's a huge gamble to put them up against other elites because if they flub the roll then they are going to get creamed by similar costed models.

 

[Sleboda]

Game 32 - 2400 vs Wood Elves

Date: August 8, 2014
Opponent: Wood Elves
Point Value: 2400
Scenario: Battleline

SPECIAL REPORT - Phatmotha-Phuka EDITION #3

Overview
Hi folks. I got in two more games last night. I promised, I kept track of the magic phases in detail, so I'm really looking forward to some good conversation centered around that information. Unfortunately, not only do I not have copies of the army lists I played against, but I also completely neglected to take any photos for memory-helpers, so the lists, deployment, and so on will be really bad.

Anyway, this game was Game #3 with Wandering Deliberations. I left out the Bastiliadon for the first time ever, based on some comments on previous games. Let's see how it went.


My list:

1 Slann - Wandering Deliberations
1 Oldblood on Coldone - Glittering Scales, Dawnstone, +2A Sword
1 Scar-vet BSB - Armor of Destiny, Great Weapon

10 Skink Skirmishers with Javelins & Shields
10 Skink Skirmishers with Javelins & Shields
10 Skink Skirmishers with Javelins & Shields
10 Skink Skirmishers with Javelins & Shields
27 Saurus - Full Command

7 Cold One Riders - Spears, Std, Music
6 Krox

1 Ancient Stegadon with Engine of the Gods
1 Troglodon

His army:
L3 Ancient Maple Tree
L3 Life Wizard

3 Warhawks
5 Wild Riders
5 Wild Riders
6 Treekin
20 Bowmen with Poison
20 Bowmen with Tomb Kings Arrows
10 Waywatchers
1 Pinetree

Summary of Events
He forgot to place his scouts, take his vangaurd, and place his free woods until we had rolled first turn. I allowed him to do all three and then we got going for real. Yes, this meant he got to place his free woods (venom thicket) after all units were deployed.

His spells were Spear, Wildform and Kadon on the Maple Tree and Regrowth, Awakening, and Flesh to Stone on the elf.
My spells were, as you know, all the Sig spells.

Terrain was present and fun, but not game changing. The only terrain 'moment' worth noting is when I got got skinks in a building and his Tomb Kings Arches still hit them on 3+ with AP. Silly me.

Deployment was nothing special fairly symetrical stuff with the center holding trees, treekin, krox, and Saurus. It was going to be a 'shoot shoot move fight in the middle' sort of game.

He went first.

Turns
Again, I forgot pictures, so I have only my memory to go by. Rather than try to get it all correct, I'll just set it up like this -

For all 4 turns, we advanced stuff into better positions and shot where we could. There were instances of failed charges, plus a big combo charge late by him. When you picture this in your mind, just think of a pretty darn straightforward mush-in-the-middle with both sides trying to gain the advantage.

With that in mind, I'll go into the magic phases:
Turn 1
Him: 2, 1+1 dice for me (that notation means he rolled a 2 and a 1 and I channeled 1 - I'll use that formula from here on)
- Regrowth on Wild Riders that had lost 2 models to a Wildwood: 9,3 (+3) vs 4,4 (+4) = regrew two models (that notation means he rolled 9 and 3 and had +3 to cast and I rolled 4 and 4 with +4 to cast - again, I'll use that from now on)

Me: 4,1 Engine boosts Fire
- Shems at Waywatchers 6,4(+4) vs NA (meaning, No Attempt at dispel) = no wounds to target
- Level 2 Fireball at Waywatchers 2,2,1(+4) works with help from Engine vs 6,4,2,1(+3) = dispelled

Turn 2
Him: 6,2
- Flesh to Stone on Pinetree 6,2(+3) vs NA = boosted T
- Wildform on Pinetree 6,5,4(+3) vs NA = boosted S and T
- Amber Spear at Krox 5,4,2(+3) vs 6,6,4,4,2,1(+4) = dispelled

Me: 5,3+1 Engine on Death
- Miasma WS on Mapletree 5,5(+4) vs NA = -1 WS
- Shems vs Pinetree 5,4(+4) vs 2,2,2,3,3(+3) = dispelled
- Leech vs Pinetree 5,4,3(+4) vs NA = no damage
- Burning Alignment to zap Hawks 4 vs 6(+3) = dispelled

Turn 3
Him: 6,3
- Flesh to Stone on Maple Tree 5,1(+3) vs NA = boost
- Regrowth on more damaged Wild Riders 4,3,1(+3) failed = nope
- Amber Spear on Troglodon 6,5,2,1(+3) vs 5,5,5,2,2,1(+4) - dispelled

Me: 6+1, 3+1 Engine on Beasts (center fight was on - Ancient Maple had killed Krox, needed to get Saurus ready)
- Searing Doom vs Mapletree 6,6,4(+4) vs NA = Dead Ancient Maple and Dead Slann to Dimensional Cascade (rolled a 3, so + or - 1 would not have mattered)

Turn 4
Doesn't matter as he won on this turn.


Result:
Overwhelmingly crushing defeat for the Lizardmen

Post-game Thoughts and Unit Evaluations
Ok, so I know it's harder without the movements to follow much, but seriously, it was just a shooting and mash in the middle. He killed 4 Krox to shooting before they could get to the battle, and the other two to Treewhacks - one each round of combat.

I tried to charge the Maple Tree with the Saurus, needing an 8 to get there and rolling a 7. This left me the chance to zap him with Searing Doom instead, which killed him and my Slann on the 3 dice I spent. Awesome.


Skink Skirmishers with Javelins and Shields
Wood Elf shooting obliterated these guys with ease.

Saurus Warriors
They were charged by the Pinetree, a unit of wildriders, and the treekin all in one phase. I lost the unit in one go.

Cold One Riders
They got charged by Treekin and were wiped out before they could swing.

Ancient Stegadon
He was fine. One of my spells worked only because he was there. His ward aura saved a number of wounds, as usual.

Kroxigor
Too much shooting to handle. AP shots. Poison shots. Poison AP shots. Shots that ignore cover, distance, and moving - all with AP. Dead. Initiative 1 vs Treewhack sucks.

Say it with me, "Never take fewer than 8."

Saurus BSB
In the big combat where the Saurus got hit on all sides, the BSB made way to the rear to accept the challenge of the Wildrider champion. The champion _easily_ killed my BSB before I could pick up my dice. A champion. Great.

Oldblood on Cold One
He wounded a treeman and his unit died around him.

Slann
What a waste of points. Yes, he killed the Maple Tree, but killed himself doing it. We both lost our generals, but I lost all my magic and he still had great combat troops AND spell casting support. Not worth the trade. I cannot tell you how happy I am to be done with Wandering Deliberations.

Troglodon
He got charged in the flank by one Wildrider and lasted two rounds of combat.


Not much more to say, really. Let me know what you thought of the magic phase. I'll do the next report in a little bit.

Thanks for reading!

 

[NexS1]

Man, do I know your pain! The exact same thing happened to me last time I played dark elves and he took 16 temple guards with him.

In my opinion, wandering deliberations tries coax the player into rolling many spells on low dice, giving the opponent heaps of room for dispel. I think you could have knocked a unit of wild riders out with steering doom, which may have saved your bsb (maybe).

As far as the bound spells go, I usually chuck them first. The steg is good because you don't need line of sight and can threaten all his small units together. He's forced to be rid of some dispel dice sp you can get some key spells off with the slann. Burning alignment gets off on anything flammable, then that's even better!

In my opinion, bound spells first, more dice per spell second.

 

[hdctambien]

His spells were Spear, Wildform and Kadon on the Maple Tree and Regrowth, Awakening, and Flesh to Stone on the elf.
My spells were, as you know, all the Sig spells.

I assume that this is backwards as only the special character Treeman can take Lore of Beasts (and only at Level 1). Regular Ancient Treemen can only use Life.

Without a bigger picgture of how the battle developed it is likely that most of my feedback will be misinformed, but...

It was going to be a 'shoot shoot move fight in the middle' sort of game

It may be hindsight, but I don't think that was the best strategy. What was your plan to get points out of his army? Kill everything? Hit his fighting forces head on and win a fair fight?

Wood Elves have to weaken you with shooting and then cleanup with their fighters. Use that against them. Kill their chaff and play keep away from their cleanup crew. 1 Saurus left alive means they don't get any points for the unit. Make him earn those points, don't march into the middle of the board and give them to him!

I think what I would have done is "run away, run away, kill archers with magic, slow Treeman/Treekin with skinks, maybe get into combat on turn 5 and 6"

You cast 6 spells and used the bound spell once. 2 spells were at Way Watchers (and unfortunately did nothing) and 4 spells were cast at the Treeman.... and you were dead by turn 4...

The Treeman is a trap. Wood Elves are going to pick at you with those damned archers and then use the Treeman to clean up.

I would have kept throwing magic missiles at the archers/way watchers/wild riders.

Use Skinks to get in front of the Treeman/Treekin/Wild Riders. Double flee if you can. Or get in his way enough that when he overruns he doesn't go too far before he hits another unit.

If the Elf is using one of his 3 missile units to shoot at your skinks, awesome! He's not shooting at Kroxigor/Saurus!

Maybe use psychology with Miasma on his Tomb King archers. "Lets see how well those arrows work when you're -3 BS!" Get him to dispel that instead of the magic missiles!

Turn 2 you had 8 dice and cast 2 of your 4 attempts.

You probably should have started with the Stegadon. Make him really think about using 1 or 2 dice on that (or just letting it go through!)

Then throw 3 magic missiles at whatever archer unit is pissing you off the most! I'd probably throw them at the Waywatchers because you could clear out the whole unit with 2 magic missiles.

Of course, in this situation, my Krox/Saurus/Cold Ones would be back against the board edge, or moving towards the corner away from the Elf combat blocks while my Skinks bum rush them.

Turn three was bad luck. With Wandering Deliberations, if you 3 dice all your spells as often as you can you can expect to miscast once per game. You got it early, and got the only miscast that would really hurt (5% change of rolling Cascade AND falling down the hole, by the way... so pretty good odds to *not* do that)

At this point though, you should have finished off the Way Watchers or started to focus on one of the archer blocks. Assuming you fell into the 95% dice rolling bracket and survived the miscast you could have gotten 1 or 2 more attempts.

That miscast really lost you the game though. You might need to be the kind of guy that takes both Soul of Stone AND the reroll-miscast-staff.

A magic based Lizardmen army (especially with WD) works a lot like a Wood Elf army, replacing their shooting with our magic. Soften them up with magic, then cleanup at the end of the game. If you get into combat too soon, then you can't use all those magic missiles. And in my experience if a battle goes more than 2 or 3 rounds, my Saurus are usually killed to a man. I'd rather have the game end the turn before my last Saurus dies (ie, don't get into combat until turn 5!)

It's a different play style than you like. I think your army/play-style would work better with a Life Slann (regrow Kroxigor, 5+ regen for Saurus or +2 toughness .. or what you really need, 2+ ignore-miscasts!)

 

[Sleboda]

Game 33 - 2400 vs. Dark Elves

Date: August 8, 2014
Opponent: Dark Elves
Point Value: 2400
Scenario: Dawn Attack

SPECIAL REPORT - Phatmotha-Phuka EDITION #4 - High Magic

Overview
I finally get to move on from Wandering Deliberations and use Loremaster High Magic. Yay! Since this was the same night as the previous report, much of the same stuff applies from last game - no photos, bad memory, and so on. If you are confused reading this, check out the previous battle.

My opponent was the overall (and Battle Points) winner of an area 100+ person tournament called Buckeye Battles. I have played against him 3 or 4 times and have always enjoyed him, his armies, and the experience. This game was no different.

My list:

1 Slann - Loremaster High Magic
1 Oldblood on Coldone - Glittering Scales, Dawnstone, +2A Sword
1 Scar-vet BSB - Carnosaur with Loping Stride, Armor of Destiny, Great Weapon

10 Skink Skirmishers with Javelins & Shields
10 Skink Skirmishers with Javelins & Shields
10 Skink Skirmishers with Javelins & Shields
10 Skink Skirmishers with Javelins & Shields
28 Saurus - Full Command

7 Krox w/ champion

1 Ancient Stegadon
1 Troglodon

His army, from memory:
Hag with Obsidian Blade on Cauldron + 28 Witch Elves
BSB on Cold One
L4 with Metal - Glittering Robes, Final Transmutation, Enchanted Blades, Searing Doom

5 Dark Riders
16 Crossbowmen
Maybe some more Dark Riders
Block of Spearmen, around 20 or so

20ish Executioners
9 Cold One Knights
3 Bolt Throwers
12 Sisters of Slaughter

That's all I remember for sure. Like the last game, most of our action was centered around meeting up in the middle, but more toward the left I suppose, since his Cauldron unit got stranded waaaaaay over on my right by a bad Dawn Attack roll. It would be able to get involved later, but I had a few turns before I had to worry.

I had some skinks, the Stegadon, and the Carnosaur over on that side as well, but I could pretty easily get them where I needed them and away from the Caludron.

It was really going to be about one of us getting around to the flank of the other, pressing the right units into the right fights, and seeing where the dice landed. Not a lot of detail to recall, but just do what you, the reader did last game and you'll be ok again. Next game I'll have better details.

Summary of Events
In general, he kept trying to kill my monsters and I kept trying to heal them. Also, he sent in his Cold One Knights on an early charge into my Saurus block. He felt he had the game won then and there, especially after killing 11 Saurus on the charge, but I knew if I held and could get my Troglodon roar to boost the Saurus, the OldBlood with them, and the Krox that flanked him, I'd be ok. Boy, was I right.

Anyway, turn-by-turn spell summary follows, using the same notations as last game:

Turn 1
Me: 3,3+1
-Walk Between Worlds on Saurus 3,3,6,+4 vs NA = Saurus move up 10 inches.
-Boosted Soul Quench vs Dark Riders 6,6,6+4 vs NA = Dead Dark Rider unit and I lost 2 levels (Soul Quench and Tempest)

Yep, round one, 3 dice, one miscast. Awesome.

Him: 6,1
- Searing Doom vs Stegadon (that had been wounded by shooting already) 6,6,6,2,1,1+4 vs NA = 3 wounds on Stegadon


Turn 2
Me: 3,1
- Boosted Apotheosis on Stegadon 5,5,3+2 vs NA = 3 wounds healed
- Hand of Glory on Krox for WS 3+2 vs 5,5,3+4 = dispelled

Him: 3,3
- Glittering Robes on Cold One Knights (who did charge my Saurus block this turn) 6,1+4 vs NA = 1+ armor save
- Searing Doom on CarnoBSB 5,4+4 vs 6,4,4+2 = dispelled (the beast had already been wounded by shooting)
- Enchanted Blades on Cold One Knights 4,1+4 vs NA = better combat for them

This was the round where he did 11 wounds, but it was not enough to break the Saurus Unit.


Turn 3
This turn I made sure everything I needed was close by - the Trog (who ROARED!), the BSB, the Krox (who charged the flank of the Cold One Knight). There was a challenge with the Krox champ, and I killed two knight before the Krox got to swing, meaning I denied myself 12 Krox attacks and could only go with the Krox champ. Still, read on...

Me: 5,3
-Hand of Glory on WS3 Krox 6,3+2 vs NA = +3WS
-Apotheosis on BSB 5,6+2 vs 6,4,2+4 = dispelled
-Drain Magic vs Cold Ones (to get rid of Robes and Blades) 6,2,2+2 vs SCROLL = dispelled

Combat came. The Troglodon roared. I lost some more models, but killed his unit down to three models - Champ, BSB, unit standard. They broke and were cut down.

Awesome note: Since my opponent is a friend, I had been playing up the confidence to a level of friendly cockiness, waiting for this moment - My OldBlood had 7 Attacks. Five of those came up 5 or 6. That's 12 S5 Attacks that did 9 wounds. He saves some, but 3 Cold One Knights fell to his blade alone. Go PF, Go Roar!

My opponent was stunned.

Him: 4,2
-Blades on Sisters 6,1+4 vs NA = better fighting Sisters
- Final Transmutation on Slann 6,3,2,1+4 failed to cast

Turn 4
The rest of the game we tried to pick up VPs. I charged a bolt thrower with the Old Blood and another with the Trog. Various shooting took out the Sisters. The Carnosaur ripped into the crossbowmen and killed them but then he was killed in turn by Executioners. It was bloody. Anyway more spells stuff:

Me: 3+1, 1
-Boosted Apotheosis on Carnosaur BSB (still alive at this point) needing a 10 got 3,1,1+2 and failed to cast

Him: 5,3
- Boosted Searing Doom on last few Saurus 6,4,4,4,3,2+4 vs NA = dead Saurus
- Blades on Executioners 6,2+4 vs 6,4,4,4,2+2 = dispelled


Turn 5
Me: 6+1, 4
- Hand of Glory on Carnosaur 3,2+2 vs 1+4 = boosted WS by 1
- Boosted Apotheosis on Carnosaur 3,2,1+2 failed to cast, causing me to not be able to survive the incoming Attacks and yielding almost 500VPs for the CarnoBSB.

Turn 6
Well, somewhere we messed up. We thought we were done and ended the game, but actually had not played turn 6. Oh well. My Kroxigor were lined up to smash his L4+bunker and win me the game, but nothing is certain, so I can't say that's what would have happened. In the end it was yet another great game against a great opponent...

Result:
...1202 to 1243 - Draw!

Post-game Thoughts and Unit Evaluations
Great game! I am so much more at home with High Magic than Wandering Deliberations. It just fits my aggressive style better. Get in there, get healed, and get in there some more. That said, it's too bad it comes on a Frog and not a Skink, because it means that in two more games, it will be out again in any game under 3000 points, and probably even then.

I was very much impressed with how the PF combo came together for me. Even in the face of double-boosted Cold One Knights+BSB, I was able to take the punch and then hit back hard. Good stuff. Can't wait for 9th edition to come so that I know what the rules will be for a few more years. I'd love to get that Saurus unit up to 40 and also add 40 Spearmen if the rules are conducive. If not, not sure what I'll do. I hate this middle ground time where I feel paralyzed to act.

Bolt throwers are just the right amount of threat to counter monsters without the feeling that cannons generate. The game felt balanced as opposed to "Oh, I go first and kill all your monsters."

I did miss Mr. Bastiladon again. He's got to come back at some point, but I also want a dual Carnosaur list, so we'll see.

More in the unit stuff, I suppose.


Skink Skirmishers with Javelins and Shields
They put some hurt on the Sisters, which was nice. Other than that, they had pretty much no impact at all, either as diverters or shooters. I am leaning more and more toward a more Saurus-based list. I may even have to add Temple Guard at some point, but without a Slann, I have to wonder if I'm not wasting some points.

Saurus Warriors
Like I said, love 'em! You need numbers and support, and they are not uber-troops, but in this game they were the foundation of the approach that allowed for layered on support to fend off elite heavy cavalry. That's pretty good. It surprised my opponents and the onlookers. Say what you want, they don't need PF to work in additional ranks. I want it, of course, but it's not needed.

Ancient Stegadon
I really missed the Engine's ward save help. I 'pretend rolled' and his ward would have been totally worth it for what it would have saved. Blowpipes are awful, and never did a single wound. If the next edition makes mounted monsters better, I may think about adding a character to an Ancient. For now, when I bring a stegadon, it's going to be a small one or an Ancient with Engine. The middle ground is pointless.

Oh, also, once again Sharpened Horns would have been wasted points. I have no regrets about never paying for those.

Kroxigor
The challenge situation was a bummer, especially since I had so much working in their favor, but oh well. I felt a bit undermanned again, taking only 7 instead of my 8+, and had we gone another turn I might have really regretted going small like that, but even so, they were a threat, they helped, and I was glad to have them.


Saurus BSB on Carnosaur
I missed this guy. I figured with High Magic in play I might be able to Walk him and heal him, so he seemed a good investment. As usual, the BSB portion was useful a number of times. I think Lizardmen BSB's occupy that perfect space between 'gotta have' (like for Skaven) and 'never take' (Tomb Kings). They are useful, usually pay for themselves, and can fight decently as well.

Oldblood on Cold One
Even the people watching the game were all like "Wow, that guy is a beast!" Yep, all hail the Cowboy (not the Cowboys, the football team - screw those guys). I'm pretty sure I need to find a way to add a second Old Blood on Cold One. Best unit in my army by far. The +2A Sword is almost a no-brainer over the great weapon for me at this point. It's too bad I cannot fit in the Potion of Strength, but really, with that many attacks being "only" S5 is just fine.

Troglodon
Once again he lived and got to use his ability. Once again the observers and even my opponent could not believe that his Roar is so damned limited. It should just be an always-on effect. It really should. I did not take the Rod upgrade this time and totally did not miss it. Why invest even more points into a random roll to add something to a random pile of randomness?

Slann
Speaking of random pile...
Let's see, five magic phases and I rolled 6, 4, 8, 4(+1) and 10(+1) power dice. Only 2 points off of expected, but the key is when. 11 power dice sounds nice if you can say when you will get it, but by the time I got an almost fully loaded phase, I had lost 2 levels and didn't really need the dice anyway.

I don't see the fascination with people investing so many points in something that has soooooo....many.....ways to disappoint. If I buy 3 cannons and 2 volley guys, do I roll a D6 each turn to see how many I am allowed to fire? It's madness that you could invest so much in a guy and have him crap the bed so often.

The best casters are the ones that are 'oh, by the way' casters who can do other stuff. Ancient treemen, Demon Princes, Chaos Sorcerers on Discs, and so on. At least then they contribute beyond hopes, wishes, and prayers.

Complaining aside, I was pleased to get a Walk Between Worlds off and to heal a little bit. Again, though, I want that on a Skink, not a 300-500 point M4 frog.

I'm glad to be doing this experiment, and I have seen these spells do some helpful things, just not helpful enough to justify the points and the loss of other capabilities.

Thanks for reading!

 

[Mr Phat]

I must say Sleb, im starting to set foot in your boat.
Just had a tournament yesterday and the frog did'nt really do anything....oh except
GAME 1
TURN 1
FIRST SPELL
MISCAST - Spirit Leech
I roll a 6, Daemon Prince rolls a 6
I roll a 3 on the Miscast table
Soul of stone couldnt save that
15 TG dead (I played a TG - Razor Standard - Skavenpelt list)
Slann down the hole

..."so, good game".


Havnt been able to play anything but tourneys lately, which we agreed didn't go under the experiment.
BUT just sat up a game for this thursday, where im gonna have my second game in "NO SlANN LAND".

Will try two lvl 2 Heaven Skinks. Maybe a 3rd for Wyssans.

 

[Ersh]

ATM i think that Slann must be alone with Higher State and Stone Soul. ...and w/o signature lore.
It's not a 100% protection, but saves Temple Guards and make a Slann hard nuking mage. Fiery Convocation is one of my favourite spells... Also if u need some signature from any lore - our lore attribute simply made for it.

 

[Putzfrau]

High magic is so bleh. You should try life sleb.

It does everything high magic does, just better. Better "big" spell, better healing spell, better buffs.

Theres only 1ish spell thats truly bad, and for the most part with 4 rolls you'll get most of what you want.

 

[NexS1]

I have to agree with Ersh, Fiery Convocation is a great spell, hard to dispel straight up, and consistently hard to dispell ongoingly. I generally cast tempest to swap it for something enemy efficient then I'm set.

 

[Sleboda]

Yeah, I gotta admit, when I miscast and lost Tempest, I was not exactly upset about it.


BTW - This weekend should see at least two, maybe three or four, games played, and at the 3000 point level. I should have some great reports soon!

 

[NexS1]

Yeah, I gotta admit, when I miscast and lost Tempest, I was not exactly upset about it.


BTW - This weekend should see at least two, maybe three or four, games played, and at the 3000 point level. I should have some great reports soon!

Fantastic! Looking forward to them!

 

[Sleboda]

Game 34 - 3000 vs High Elves

Date: August 16, 2014
Opponent: High Elves
Point Value: 3000
Scenario: Battle for the Pass

SPECIAL REPORT - Phatmotha-Phuka EDITION #5

Overview
This was my second High Magic experiment. I tried to apply the lessons on the past, and see if there was any progress. My opponent turned out to be a guy I've played once before when we were both running different armies. We today he had High Elves. He took Teclis, which I didn't mind one bit. He accepted my offer of cheap beer and we were off.


My list:
Slann - High Loremaster
Oldblood on ColdOne - Glittering Scales, Dawnstone, +2A Sword, Potion of Foolihaha
Scar-vet BSB on Loping Carnosaur - Armor of Destiny, Great Weapon, Shield (for a 1+ vs shooting)

13 Skink Skirmishers with Javelins and Shields
13 Skink Skirmishers with Javelins and Shields
13 Skink Skirmishers with Javelins and Shields
13 Skink Skirmishers with Javelins and Shields
38 Saurus - Full Command

7 Cold One Riders - Spears, Full Command
8 Kroxigor
7 Chameleons (just for you, Phat!)

Ancient Stegadon
Troglodon


His army sort of:
Teclis - Lots of Spells (Comet, Fireball, Enchanted Blades, Miasma, Sun, Wither, Pha's, Wildform, more?)
L2 Wizard with 2 spells, 2 of which I might have just added to Teclis - oh well, you get the idea
BSB

5 Reavers
5 Reavers
25ish White Lions
25ish Phoenix Guard
15ish Archers
15ish Archers
15ish Archers
Eagle
Eagle
Frost Bird
3 Bolt Throwers

We rolled up Battle For the Pass. I had an Elven Waystone in my half (clearly we were taking it back from the dirty little elves who had been abusing its power). I also had a Blood Forest and a hill. He had a Venom Thicket, hill, and building in his half.

As you know from BFtP, you play the long way. I'll describe deployment from top to bottom instead of my usual left to right. He was on the left half of the table. Top to bottom: Reavers, Eagle, Lions in the woods, archers with L2, PGuard with Teclis, Archer behind PG, Reavers in front of them, Archers, Frosty, Eagle, 3 Bolts in front of Frosty and Eagle.

My stuff, on the right, top to bottom: Skinks, skinks, Krox, (Waystone), Trog behind Stone, Saurus with OldBlood, BSB behind the Saurus, Cold Ones, skinks+Slann behind cavalry, Ancient, skinks.

My Chameleons had nowhere to go behind his lines, so I put them at the bottom on the table, about 15 inches from the 'lowest' bolt thrower, and just out of Eagle charge range.

He used Vanguard on the central Reavers over toward my Chameleons.

He went first.

Summary of Events
I have a few photos this time, and was not deep into the beer until about turn 5, so this should be better than other recent reports.


Turn 1
Elves

Movement:
He moved the Frosty to behind the building. Not sure why, really. The White Lions advanced. Not much else moved other than getting some better shot spots with archers.

Magic: 5,4
- Comet in my backfield 6,4,2,1+5 vs NA
- 2D6 Fireball at Chameleons 6,3,1+5 vs 6,5,4,2,1+4 = dispelled
- Enchanted Blades on Archers 6,4+5 vsNA = up

Shooting:
He killed all my chameleons. Ok, actually he killed 3 and the rest ran off the table.
He put 1 wound on my Ancient Stegadon.

Lizards

Movement:
I advanced the majority of my stuff. All of it, actually.

Magic: 4,3
- Apotheosis on the Stegadon 2,1+4 vs NA = healed Stegadon
- Walk Between Words on Saurus 6,3+4 vs 3,2,2,1+5 = dispelled
- Tempest on his PG 6,5,4+4 vs NA = scatter to hit lots of stuff and kill about 6 models. Traded for Wildform.

Shooting: None.

Turn 2
Elves

Movement:
He continued to be very, very cautious. The Frosty stayed hidden. The Eagles stayed back. The Guard and Lions went to either side of the building and an archer unit got inside it. That was about it.

Magic: 6,1
- Miasma on Saurus for Movement 4,2+2 (little guy had it I now see - yay notes!) vs NA = -1M on Saurus and caster swapped spots with Teclis.
- Sun toward my Krox and Trog 6,6,2,2,1+5 vs NA = template close but not hitting my stuff, Teclis ignores miscast

Shooting:
The Slann's bunker is reduced to 2 models. The bolt thowers established that the would no longer have any desire to hit anything the rest of the game. Sometimes they did, by mistake, but they never did anything good for the rest of the time we played. Whew!

Lizards

Movement:
More advancing. The OldBlood charges out on his own to engage the Phoenix Guard.

Magic: 5,4
- The Comet came down. It killed many Saurus and the BSB+His Carnosaur. Awesome.
- Arcane Unforging vs BSB in PGuard unit 6,6,3 vs NA = kills his magic ring, does not wound him, and drains my remaining 6 dice.

Shooting:
All his Reavers die. All of them.

Combat:
The OldBlood kills 3 Phoenix Guard, takes no wounds, and holds (lost by 1).

Turn 3
Elves

Movement:
Again he pretty much sits there.

Magic: 6,1
- Wither on Stegadon 6,5,3,2+5 vs 6,5,4,2,2,1+4 = dispel.
- Wildform on PGuard 5,2+5 vs NA = up
- Pha's on PGuard 5+5 vs NA = up

Shooting:
Bolt Throwers fail to wound the Stegadon. Some skinks die - two of their units are down to one skink each.

Combat: The OldBlood kills a Guard and fails his breakcheck, but the PG do not chase and he lives.


Lizards

Movement:
Cold Ones charge the PGuard (better than getting charged).
Slann hops into the Saurus.
OldBlood rallies.
Both lone skinks run toward my table edge to avoid giving up VPs.
Skinks at the top of the table being to encircle the Lions while keeping an Eagle in their sights.

Magic: 6+1,4
- Hand of Glory on Cold Ones (I have a plan, and it totally relies on Magic) for WS 6,3+4 vs 4,3,1,1+5 = dispelled
- Drain Magic on Phoenix Guard (yeah, baby!) 6,5,2,2+4 vs Scroll (boo!) = dispelled and sadness
- Wildform on Cold Ones (see!) 5,3,1+4 vs 6,3,2+5 = dispelled
- Soul Quench vs White Lions 6,5+4 vs NA = no dead guys at all

Shooting:
Dead Eagle

Combat:
Well, with all his spells still up and all of mine stopped, the Cold One Riders are wiped out to the man before they get to swing. Whoo hoo ..... magic! Grr.

Turn 4 - The One Where I Completely Forgot to Take Pix For the Rest of the Game
It's hard to recall exactly from here on, but the notes I took on spells helped. It looks to me like he still kept stuff back for the most part. He was counting on spells and shooting to do enough before he engaged. He did pop Frosty out for some fun.

Magic: 4+1, 3 +1 More from Forbidden Rod that killed the L2 for using it (See, they had been doing Forbidden things, and no longer deserved their Waystone.
- Sun toward Krox 6,6,4,4,2,2+5 vs NA = 4 dead Krox and 2 more dice for him, World Dragon Banner prevents miscast from harming the unit, 2 dice drain away
- Wildform on Lions 6,5,3+5 vs 3,2,1+4 = good Lions

Shooting:
He shook his fist at his bolt throwers.

Lizards

Movement:
Saurus and OldBlood charge the Phoenix Guard.
Krox and Trog charge the Lions (who had Teclis on the corner).
Ancient charges Frosty.
The two little skinks hid.

Magic: 4,2
- Wildform on Saurus 6,4,2+4 vs 4,1,1+5 = beefy Saurus
- Hand of Glory for WS on Saurus 5,4,1+4 vs NA = even beefier Saurus
- Apotheosis on something that was hurt (cannot read my beer-writing) 5+4 vs NA = something felt better

Shooting:
Something shot something else.

Combat:
The Ancient Stegadon's impact hits reduced the Frosty to 2 wounds. His actual attacks and the attacks of the skinks failed to do anything. Still, the bird broke, ran, and was cut down!

The Krox all died, as you would expect, but the mission was accomplished anyway - the Troglodon killed Teclis.

The Saurus and OldBlood beat the Phoenix Guard and killed them all. Yum!

Ok, actually, that's not all correct. I see in my notes that there were two more turns. I think what happened was that the PG combat went a bit longer, as did the Frosty. In Turn 5 I have notes saying I was casting Wildform on the Stegadon and HoG on the Saurus. Then in Turn 6 I was doing that again, along with Apotheosis.

What I do know is that the Saurus and Old Blood took out the PG one turn and came around to kill all the White Lions in Turn 6. It's sort of a blur, but the notes give me a good indicator, and I do recall discussing the 1000+ point gain from those two units and how it would have been a draw otherwise.

Result: Massive win to the Lizardmen, and Teclis served up as an appetizer at dinner that night.


Post-game Thoughts and Unit Evaluations
I was really surprised he was so hesitant to advance, especially the Frostheart. That thing can turn the tide on its own. I get that his army was shooting and magic heavy, but he had two good combat blocks and the Bird. It's ok though - I'll take it!

Magic was improved for me this game, and it's clear in the extreme now that I prefer High Magic over Deliberations. Apotheosis helps my monsters, Walk Between Worlds scares people. Hand of Glory shifts results when needed. Toss out one-shot spells like Tempest early on to get Wildform, and you are in good shape. It's all about the point costs though, and I'll get into that a bit more below. Just sayin' High > Deliberations every time.


Skink Skirmishers with Javelins and Shields
Meh. Killed an Eagle. Not much else. I suppose one unit held the frog for a bit, but it never shot and cohorts are cheaper, if less maneuverable. I get more out of these units when I am not tied to Slann-duty. It's been several games now since they've done much, but I suspect I'll re-enjoy them with the shift back to priests.

Saurus Warriors
Man, I just keep on loving these guys. I know I keep saying it (or something like it), but I just really want to get some resolution to the spears/PF/Engine stuff so I know how to finish the unit or to make a second one. They are in limbo now, I am afraid to commit until the FAQ or 9th come along. Until then, I'll just keep plugging away on other stuff and use this unit as is.

Chameleons
It was good to have a reminder. Wow, do they ever throw points down the drain. Their BS increase is wasted by having blowpipes. Their scouting is meaningless against a smart opponent (and mine was sure to leave no gaps in his lines). The extra -1 to hit them is nice....if you take 30 so that the shift in numbers means they won't have to take panic checks. I have to say, I really[/i] don't see the fascination here.


Ancient Stegadon
This was the first game, ever, where Sharpened Horns might have mattered. As much as I would like to have had them, they are not worth taking and wasting in 30 games just to get a use out of the in one. I do miss the Engine, though, if only for the ward save. He was a champ in this game. I actually got more than a one on the impact roll...hell, I actually got a charge off!

The giant blowpipes were so, so, so horrible. SO horrible. Lots of shots. Pretty much always need sixes to hit. It would be great if you could take this guy without the pipes at a 15 point discount.

S6 mattered. Against the Frostheart I really needed it. S5 would have failed to wound and thus the bird would not have fled.

Kroxigor
Put this one in the 'bummer' column. They didn't contribute much beyond filling the front of the Lion unit and making it so that the Troglodon could touch Teclis and Teclis alone. Granted, that was huge because they basically traded their lives for Teclis' doom, so maybe they were not so bad afterall. Plus, they did draw a lot of attention as you can see from my opponent sending Suns at them.

Yeah, you know what? Even though they did not kill stuff, they still served a pretty important role. Nice job, guys!


Saurus BSB on Carnosaur
The Comet was fabulous, putting exactly 5 wounds on the Carnosaur and 2 wounds on the BSB, killing both. He was not important today, at all, but that happens.

Oldblood on Cold One
Even with the time he ran, he was still great again. He killed stuff, ran, rallied, and came back to kill more. I continue to love the +2A sword. If only I had remembered to use that darn potion.

Troglodon
Stone cold killa! He really enjoyed the Teclis meat before he got taken down. His roar was used on the Krox before they died to the Lions, and also helped the Saurus in a fight that round. Not a major impact there, but a boost.

Slann
Well, I have to be honest and say that he was useful in this game. Apotheosis, Hand of Glory, and a traded-for Wildform really were handy. My opponents bolt throwers were unlucky, but even so, I felt like I had spells that could help in case he was doing better - as long as I did not miscast. Of course, I miscast. I had a good phase lines up there and once again King Random visited his subjects. Add in the phase where by all rights I should have shifted the results over to favor the Cold Ones and doom the Phoenix Guard, and it's really just hard as hell to get behind the investment in points and plans. It's far better, in my view, to take a few L2 skinks, toss them around, and see if you get a perk there or there than it is to build around a Slann.

Again, he was ok this game, but I still feel he did not justify the investment compared to other things I could have taken.

So yeah. One more game to report. It's been played, but I can't get into it tonight. I have other stuff to do. A teaser though - I went from a game with Teclis to a game with Archaon. Pretty epic!

Thanks for reading!

 

[Sleboda]

Game 35 - 3000 vs. Warriors of Chaos

Date: Aug 16, 2014
Opponent: Warriors of Chaos
Point Value: 3000
Scenario: Battleline

SPECIAL REPORT - Phatmotha-Phuka EDITION #6

Overview
My list:
Same as last game.


His army sort of:
Archaon
BSB on Jugger
Festus

4 Juggers
Big Big Big block of Warriors of Nurgle

Chimera
Chimera
Chimera

There may have been more stuff. This was game #2 and there was beer.


Summary of Events
His Juggers+BSB were on my left. His 3 flyers were on my right. His block with Archaon and Festus (so, Archaon with poison and regen) was in the middle. I sent the Krox at the Juggers, the Cav and Ancient at the Chimeras, and the Saurus block held the middle until they had to engage the block.

There's not a whole lot to get into, to be honest. We all crashed into the middle and his stuff killed mine. It's not like I was trying to get smacked by his troops, but I could not kill them faster than he could kill me.

Here's some spell stuff---


Turn 1

Me: 6,3+1
- Tempest on his block 5,4,2+4 vs NA = 28 hits, 8 wounds, 3 dead
- Fiery Convocation vs Juggers 4,3,1,1+4 fails to cast

Him: 3,1
- Searing Doom at Ancient Stegadon 4,4,3,1+3 vs 6,4,3+4 = dispelled

So, we had closed the gap, taken some pot shots, and now had to get in there and mix it up.

Turn 2
This turn things would swing my way if I could just get an average magic phase. I charged the Krox into the Juggers, looking to get them Hand of Glory and Wildform (traded from Tempest). I could cast other spells first to draw dice and then get these to go. That was the idea.

Me: 2+1, 1. Yep. 4 dice.
- Wildform on Krox 6,4+4 vs Scroll (Have I said how stupid Scrolls are?)
- HoG on Krox 5,3+4 vs 5,1+3 = +2 WS on Krox

In combat I did a grand total of 3 wounds with my massive S7 attacks and took 11 in return. Krox ran and died. The game was effectively over, as my flank was now open to the Juggers, but we pressed on.

Him: 5,5
- Rust on Saurus 5,3,2,2+3 vs NA = rusted scales
- Boosted Fleshiness 5,4,4,4,4,1+3 vs 6,5,3,1,1+4 = ouch

He charged the Saurus with his big block. He challenged. My champion fell to Archaon, but the rest of the fight went ok. I only lost about 10 guys to his 4. I was unable to wound Festus.


Turn 3
I charged the corner of the Warriors with the Ancient Stegadon.

Me: 3,1 (Wow, such powerful spellcasting possibilities with a L4 caster and 8 spells!)
- Wildform on Saurus 6,2+4 vs 6,5,5+3 = dispelled
- HoG on Saurus 5,1 vs NA = +2WS on Saurus

This turn Archaon challenged and killed my OldBlood with contemptuous ease (no armor save allowed). My Ancient did 1 impact wound.

Him: 6,5 (Hey, look! Another turn where I get crap and he gets tons. Yeah. Magic. Soooo reliable.)
- Can't read my notes, but it looks like "Dom" at Steg 6,4,2,1,1+3 vs NA
- Something else nasty 6,6,5,4,2,1 (Total Power) vs NA

His Chimeras were involved now as well. I was down to about 10 Saurus. The Steg was somehow still alive.


Turn 4
I think the Cav got in on the action this turn, now that I think about it.

Me: 4,4+1
- Boosted Apotheosis on Steg 6,2,1+4 vs NA = healed Stegadon
- Wildform on Saurus 2,1+4 failed

In combat all my stuff died.

Game was over. I still had the Frog and the BSB, but that's about it.

Result: Archaon and Festus high-fived over my Oldblood's corpse.


Post-game Thoughts and Unit Evaluations
Thank the living zombie body of Jeebus that this Frog stuff is done. What a perfect game to show how fickle the plan is. All I really cared about was Wildform, Hand of Glory, and Apotheosis, and spending 300-500 points to try to get that is just silly.

I'll miss those two High spells, but I can't justify the cost of the caster.

At first I thought I'd do well in this game. I know Nurgle can be tough, but with spells, Trog Roar, and the Oldblood, I thought I could get enough Attacks to matter. Turns out, not so much. Archaon + Festus makes for a mean combo that I just was not able to handle.

I was pretty disappointed in how the Krox/Jugger combat went, and that set the tone for the game.

Skink Skirmishers with Javelins and Shields
They did nothing.

Saurus Warriors
Top unit again, yet still dead.

Chameleons
I didn't mention them, because they did nothing. Oh, they shot at Chimeras along with the Skinks, but the missed a ton and then the beasts were in combat. How on earth people justify the expense of these guys remains a mystery to me.

Ancient Stegadon
Yay, one impact wound. Blowpipes never mattered. I want a new edition where monsters matter, and I want it now.

Kroxigor
So sad. S7 didn't matter against 1+ saves.

Saurus BSB
Hung out. Did his usual thing.

Oldblood on Cold One
For once, he failed utterly. That will happen now and again.

Slann
I don't really need to say, do I?

Troglodon
Superfluous.


Next up, two L2 skinks, Engine, Bastiladon (maybe 2) and a return to my comfort zone.

Thanks for reading!

 

[Putzfrau]

Ouch, sounds like you mixed it up a bit too early. Lizards have a hard time against warriors without the full on combat avoidance list.

Glad you tried out the slann, even if you ended up not liking it too much.

I do think that overall your spell selection/casting and overall magic strategy could use some tweaking but i dont think its going to make a massive difference, especially when you've consistently been in the "no magic" camp.

It really requires some trial and error and if you just aren't feeling it then obviously the last thing you wanna do is practice practice practice.

Honestly it seems like WoC would be a great army for you. Get to mix it up early and often with powerful units that can really dish out some damage in wonderful melee mayhem.


Enjoyed the report, as always!

 

[Sleboda]

I agree with you. I definitely got in too early. I also think I may be learning a lesson about my deployment in general. I am going to start trying to deploy on half the table by default, concentrating forces and allowing me to deal with less of the opposing army at once. This also means that more things should be in range of the Troglogon's Roar and the Engine's ward save.

I played another game last night (report later) where I still did not do that, but it would have been better if I had. I also learned another lesson last night, but I'll save that for the report.

Oh, and wait until you see how magic went with 2 L2 Skinks!

You are right about Warriors. They would suit me. I have a Warriors army (undivided and Slaanesh elements) based on the artwork from Belphegor's albums "Goatreich - Fleshcult" and "Bondage Goat Zombie." Captured humans crucified on inverted crosses, S&M gear everywhere...you know, the usual nasty evil stuff. I even converted Asdrubeal Vect's slave girls to be demonic nuns doing odd things to each other on a chariot.

 

[Sleboda]

I have two more reports to put up, but before I put in the effort, a quick question -


Has this thread outlived its usefulness?