The Ultimate Middle-Earth SBG Thread

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Didn't the Chaos Dwarfs get updated? They may not be official for Age of Sigmar, but aren't they in the same standing in TOW as the Lizardmen, Vampire Counts, Ogre Kingdoms, etc?

The only new models they've had are for Blood Bowl at this point. You're correct in that they have a fully-functioning PDF army list for TOW as Lizardmen, Ogres, Vampires and the other 'Legacy' factions do, but you can only go so far with a set of rules without having equivalent models to use them with . Of course there are alternative manufacturers that make models for many of the units (Mantic's Abyssal Dwarfs being my favourites), but it'd still be great to see a full-on GW plastic army release appear.

 

[J.Logan]

Didn't the Chaos Dwarfs get updated? They may not be official for Age of Sigma

I think there have been hints that they be making a comeback in this latest edition of Age of Sigmar. But that could easily be wishful thinking from AoS Fanta that are also Chorf fans.

Honestly, in TOW, what I most want, aside from all the classic races, is for the world to be expanded. Give Kislev their roster, give us Grand Cathay as GeeDubs teased us years back. Give formal rules for Tilea and Estalia. Release an army list for Araby. Etc etc.

They won't. But it doesn't cost anything to imagine such a timeline where GeeDubs are still run by the passionate enthusiasts and not the corporate overlords.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Honestly, in TOW, what I most want, aside from all the classic races, is for the world to be expanded. Give Kislev their roster, give us Grand Cathay as GeeDubs teased us years back. Give formal rules for Tilea and Estalia. Release an army list for Araby. Etc etc.

I believe those to be competing ideas. Expanding into the Warhammer world would decrease the chances of the classic races being restored, and vice versa. TOW is a smaller game for GW and they are only willing to invest so much in terms of resources. Classic armies require less investment, but new armies probably have a higher rate of return. My guess would be on new races.

Then again, it's GW, so who knows!

 

[J.Logan]

Classic armies require less investment

Barely any, just the material cost of manufacturing what they already have moulds for.

new armies probably have a higher rate of return.

You'd certainly think so. Especially considering how many people still had their old collections, so a whole new army is an untapped potential for new and old players alike to buy into.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Barely any, just the material cost of manufacturing what they already have moulds for.

There is more than that. They need storage space for it and if sold in stores, shelf space too. There are transport costs. Repackaging costs. And so on. So while it is relatively resource light, they would still need to allocate resources away from other games in order to re-release legacy army units. Games Workshop has a finite manufacturing and storage capacity.

And as far as their big games go...

You'd certainly think so. Especially considering how many people still had their old collections, so a whole new army is an untapped potential for new and old players alike to buy into.

Plus it instantly drums up hype. New models are exciting.

 

[BrotherSutek]

Personally I'd rather not see them back as a mercenary army... only as specific Mercenary units to be added to existing armies in TOW armies' Mercenaries points allowance.

And certainly not the Gods-awful Renaissance Italian lore they had. That's one thing I'd love to see retconned and replaced with something decent. Like Rome... a fantasy Roman Empire or Republic (perhaps with Renaissance tech... a Rome that never entirely fell) would be much more the ticket for Tilea. Partly because it would be an actually coherent army rather than a jumble of mercenaries.

If they changed the lore I admit I'd lose interest. I like the fact that they aren't unified as it makes them unique. I get what you're saying but if they were how you described they would feel, IMO, just the same as the Empire. I love my Empire army but I don't want two of them, I mean I do but that's hobby madness. I'd still be happy if they released the old models but I wouldn't use them in this game. They would stay in my 7th and 8th edition games.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

I like the fact that they aren't unified as it makes them unique.

I feel the same way. It's a rag-tag group of mercenaries working together for coin. Since when have mercenaries ever had any real sense of loyalty? We already have many "conventional" armies; Dogs of War feels like something uniquely different. I wouldn't want that changed.

I've never played the Dogs of War, but I'd love to see them get an updated modern model refresh They have infinite potential.

 

[J.Logan]

I feel the same way. It's a rag-tag group of mercenaries working together for coin. Since when have mercenaries ever had any real sense of loyalty? We already have many "conventional" armies; Dogs of War feels like something uniquely different. I wouldn't want that changed.

I've never played the Dogs of War, but I'd love to see them get an updated modern model refresh They have infinite potential.

Thinking on it, that recommendation I gave on the Games Workshop allows you to greenlight a project, what do you choose? thread, about a ruleset specifically about creating your own faction... that could easily work for a Dogs of War ruleset, an open set of rules to create an entirely unique army for yourself, with official DoW doubling as examples of the rules at work.

 

[- Q -]

The only new models they've had are for Blood Bowl at this point. You're correct in that they have a fully-functioning PDF army list for TOW as Lizardmen, Ogres, Vampires and the other 'Legacy' factions do, but you can only go so far with a set of rules without having equivalent models to use them with .

That is very true. Why did Games Workshop cancel those Forge World models? They seemed like up to date modern sculpts. Are they getting new AoS plastic models maybe?

I'd still be happy if they released the old models but I wouldn't use them in this game.

Why not? What if their TOW rules were really good and they were made to be a fully fledged army?

hey would stay in my 7th and 8th edition games.

Did they have 8th edition rules?

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

If they changed the lore I admit I'd lose interest. I like the fact that they aren't unified as it makes them unique. I get what you're saying but if they were how you described they would feel, IMO, just the same as the Empire. I love my Empire army but I don't want two of them, I mean I do but that's hobby madness. I'd still be happy if they released the old models but I wouldn't use them in this game. They would stay in my 7th and 8th edition games.

Do you know the Dogs of War will be getting an army in Total War: Warhammer? That might provide some insight as to whether or not they will ever get a model/rules update in tabletop and what such an update might look like.

 

[BrotherSutek]

That is very true. Why did Games Workshop cancel those Forge World models? They seemed like up to date modern sculpts. Are they getting new AoS plastic models maybe?


Why not? What if their TOW rules were really good and they were made to be a fully fledged army?


Did they have 8th edition rules?

Only in Warhammer Armies Project but those were pretty balanced and fun. I'd like to have rules for them either way the issue with changing the base idea for them is that it would change the creative process for units. Yes I would like the streamlined rules so it plays like an army but not so much that it would feel like Empire mark II. I don't know how to express it well writing it down.

 

[BrotherSutek]

Do you know the Dogs of War will be getting an army in Total War: Warhammer? That might provide some insight as to whether or not they will ever get a model/rules update in tabletop and what such an update might look like.

Sorry for double post I'm not the best with technology. I'd love to see that! I've only seen a guy on YouTube with a mod that made his army the Dogs. What they make will definitely give insight into what they are doing. Hopefully something amazing!

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Anyhow, returning to the subject this thread was meant to discuss, here's a summary of some of the main changes to the new Edition of the Middle-Earth Strategy Battle Game, which is going on pre-order on Saturday:
https://www.warhammer-community.com...y-battle-game-key-changes-in-the-new-edition/

You know they're fawning over Aragorn too much when the uncontrollable Rohan horse he somehow tames automatically (because of course he does), Brego, is given greater intelligence than a standard human Warrior of Minas Tirith (6+, better than 7+). And Aragorn himself seems to be portrayed as an intellectual titan compared to a standard human being, which I'd be keen to dispute... he's certainly above-average in terms of intelligence, no doubt, but not the genius Intelligence level of 3+, to be passed when rolling 2 dice. Such privileges should be reserved for the Wizards, Elves and a select few truly intellectual humans.

Anyway, what's most interesting is that they're dedicating a whole article to Army List building later in the week... which they wouldn't do if they weren't changing things. Better not get my hopes up, but are we actually going to see improvement in this most flawed part of the SBG?

 

[J.Logan]

That does seem to be rather... overly eager to gush upon Aragorn. Maybe the intelligence thing is his depiction in the books? Somebody can fill me in on if that's the case or not.

All I remember is that in the books his depiction put emphasis on the "King" of his king in exile status, complete with being a towering godly man with a commanding presence, ready to take back his throne. In contrast, Peter Jackson put more emphasis on the "Exile" part.

But yeah, giving the horse that intelligence is... um... Ok, wut?

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

All I remember is that in the books his depiction put emphasis on the "King" of his king in exile status, complete with being a towering godly man with a commanding presence, ready to take back his throne.

I have to admit I haven't read the books in full yet, but is that really how he's portrayed in the novels?

I can't seem to decide which is worse now, PJ's exile who is just a little too perfect at everything he does, or almost a literal demigod amongst men who might as well have the phrase 'I'm a King-in-waiting and obvious target' written on his back.

I don't know if you can tell but I really don't like 'Chosen One' heroes who are too good at everything

But yeah, giving the horse that intelligence is... um... Ok, wut?

I wouldn't be so bothered if they gave such an honour to Shadowfax (indeed they probably will), given that he's a literal king of the purest-bred race of horses in Middle Earth (so pretty much to an ornery nag what Gandalf is to a human), but to give such a boost to one such relatively ordinary horse who only has a couple of scenes of significance in the films, just because he's associated with Aragorn? Nah.

 

[J.Logan]

I have to admit I haven't read the books in full yet, but is that really how he's portrayed in the novels?

I can't seem to decide which is worse now, PJ's exile who is just a little too perfect at everything he does, or almost a literal demigod amongst men who might as well have the phrase 'I'm a King-in-waiting and obvious target' written on his back.

I don't know if you can tell but I really don't like 'Chosen One' heroes who are too good at everything

Been a good long while, but yeah, in the books, Aragorn is meant to be like a 6ft plus giant of a man because of his Numenorean bloodline and with a commanding presence and charisma.

PJ at least gave Aragorn the almost reluctant everyman vibe, who just happened to be older than most humans so had time to perfect skills whilst hiding in plain sight as a Ranger. Yes, he's still a bit too good at everything, but that was still toned down, somewhat. Again, anybody more familiar with the books can correct me if my memory is being a little dodgey.

Put it this way, I was joking with a friend about who Pete would have cast as Aragorn if he were going book accurate. We both agreed that The Undertaker would have actually been perfect for the role in the physical sense. Maybe not in dialogue, as Aragorn having a Texan accent would be a bit weird.

(And having remembered that conversation, I really wish I could have seen such a movie. Sean Bean angrily declaring that Gondor needs no king at The Undertaker would have been hilarious.)

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Well, here's the army list building article:
https://www.warhammer-community.com...battle-game-army-building-in-the-new-edition/

And I was right not to get my hopes up, it only talks about some of the different army lists, with no mention of changing how Heroes and Warriors are selected, pretty much meaning that the 'Warband' format is still there in all its abysmal glory. But the reintroduction of various army lists for the same faction based on different moments from the films is nice.

I think I'm just going to have to continue with my plan to build a small battle-level adaptation of the rules, using the War of the Ring army selection rules. I may still get the new rules for using profiles, army lists and the basic rules, but I will certainly be using my own expansion for selecting my armies and handling the game as a battle format. True, I won't be able to play at events, but I don't care about that... so long as I can use my collection in the way I want to it'll be better than the 'official' ruleset by a country mile. I might well upload the expansion here if anyone else is interested once it's complete...

 

[BrotherSutek]

I have to admit I haven't read the books in full yet, but is that really how he's portrayed in the novels?

I can't seem to decide which is worse now, PJ's exile who is just a little too perfect at everything he does, or almost a literal demigod amongst men who might as well have the phrase 'I'm a King-in-waiting and obvious target' written on his back.

I don't know if you can tell but I really don't like 'Chosen One' heroes who are too good at everything



I wouldn't be so bothered if they gave such an honour to Shadowfax (indeed they probably will), given that he's a literal king of the purest-bred race of horses in Middle Earth (so pretty much to an ornery nag what Gandalf is to a human), but to give such a boost to one such relatively ordinary horse who only has a couple of scenes of significance in the films, just because he's associated with Aragorn? Nah.

In the books there are references that due to his heritage he is naturally good at many things but he also is raised by the elves in Rivendell. He literally has elven training for everything and his drive for the Throne of Gondor is also partially the brideprice Elrond set for Arwen. It may be a bit much but Tolkien made him amazing due to both nurture and nature. The horse on the other hand was just a good horse, Shadowfax he is not.

 

[Killer Angel]

 

[Imrahil]

Yep, he is an amazing MESBG scenery content creator. His goal is to make the whole of Middle-Earth in 28 mm scale.
My Gondor scenery is based on the templates he created (free download on his website)

He has a whole Palace on Terra build as well for 40K games.

Grrr, !mrahil