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8th Ed. New Lizardman army book and info
- Thread starter Rikard
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Saurus
Malebranche
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I was hoping for some extra ability or something that hadn't been leaked to make the new monsters good, but I have to say they're a huge let down. An Ankylosaurus was the very top of my wishlist, and I'm still not buying any.
Skink
newlmplayer
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Does the Basitiladon get impact hits?
Saurus
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Oh and one last question - is the all signature spells option for slann worded as a lore (this would be great with EOTG making a lore cheaper to cast)
Saurus
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Is Mazdmunda still in the book? hes always been my favorite character
Saurus
beardedgecko
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that's the most depressing thing I've heard. it's starting to sound like a good thing I haven't been able to get the book. totally skippable.
Saurus
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While I agree the new monsters aren't very effective per se I'd be hard pressed to find a monster from the new books that is honestly, you dont really see Ogres take stonehorns you don't see empire take griffins really, I'd say Dragons from the high elves book seem to be the most used monster so I can't say I'm all that surprised......
That being said I disagree with everyone saying how useless the Bastiladon is, I mean ya he isn't good at combat but then again a Steg isn't either, once you use the impact hits he's about as good as a concrete wiffle ball bat....strong but slow and tiresome. The Bastiladon is even less combat effective but then again he's isnt quite made for that. He's cheap IMO for what he's got stat wise T5 and a 2+ armor isn't bad, warmachines will of course demolish him but what won't they demolish even when something has a decent regen/ward all it takes is that missed save and your chance of death is in your enemy's hands. So what is he good for?
I don't think people are thinking of the potential of poison spam, strength 4 saurus with poison is pretty good and while its not plague bearers with a herald good (they can get poison on 5s) its still pretty awesome and all you needs is to have those 5 wound unbreakable swarms there in combat along your Saurus to get it. The Basti is a mobile swarm generator he can keep getting you more, I assume it works while in combat aswell just keeping them there. Couple the poison with PF and that's even more potential there, the Basti is a beast made for a specific job he isn't a flexible creature he's made for a peticular strategy.
Then we have the big crystal lazer thing yes it's a bound spell 3 which isn't so good but it's a 3 single dice it if your opponent wants to waste a dice on it cool one less Disp dice for something good and if he dosent dispell it then even better cause you get your solar beam, now it won't always be super effective but hey it's got it's purposes it can clear chaff easily you could try to shoot it at a monster in an attempt to put some wounds on it. It's a free upgrade so it's not like your paying anything extra for it, besides I think it's more about the Inititiative buff than anything yea it's only +1 initiative on intitiative 1 Saurus but once again we have something that's made for a specific job Hand of Glory is a spell in High Magic that allows you to choose Initiative, WS,BS, or movement by D3 or all of them on a 10+ think about it that little buff from your Basti seems pointless till coupled with Hand of glory your Saurus are working with a base 2I instead of 1 TG base 3I instead of 2 suddenly Initiative is looking like less of a problem. Sure lore of light can do it better but now that we don't have general Loremaster with a Slann you can't gaurentee you'll get what spells you want. I mean does it make the Basti an auto choice in lists? No but it gives it a place. Want to make him more survivable keep in range of a Steg with the engine. We have alot of new things and I don't think anyone should pass them off just because on paper they look bad.
That being said I disagree with everyone saying how useless the Bastiladon is, I mean ya he isn't good at combat but then again a Steg isn't either, once you use the impact hits he's about as good as a concrete wiffle ball bat....strong but slow and tiresome. The Bastiladon is even less combat effective but then again he's isnt quite made for that. He's cheap IMO for what he's got stat wise T5 and a 2+ armor isn't bad, warmachines will of course demolish him but what won't they demolish even when something has a decent regen/ward all it takes is that missed save and your chance of death is in your enemy's hands. So what is he good for?
I don't think people are thinking of the potential of poison spam, strength 4 saurus with poison is pretty good and while its not plague bearers with a herald good (they can get poison on 5s) its still pretty awesome and all you needs is to have those 5 wound unbreakable swarms there in combat along your Saurus to get it. The Basti is a mobile swarm generator he can keep getting you more, I assume it works while in combat aswell just keeping them there. Couple the poison with PF and that's even more potential there, the Basti is a beast made for a specific job he isn't a flexible creature he's made for a peticular strategy.
Then we have the big crystal lazer thing yes it's a bound spell 3 which isn't so good but it's a 3 single dice it if your opponent wants to waste a dice on it cool one less Disp dice for something good and if he dosent dispell it then even better cause you get your solar beam, now it won't always be super effective but hey it's got it's purposes it can clear chaff easily you could try to shoot it at a monster in an attempt to put some wounds on it. It's a free upgrade so it's not like your paying anything extra for it, besides I think it's more about the Inititiative buff than anything yea it's only +1 initiative on intitiative 1 Saurus but once again we have something that's made for a specific job Hand of Glory is a spell in High Magic that allows you to choose Initiative, WS,BS, or movement by D3 or all of them on a 10+ think about it that little buff from your Basti seems pointless till coupled with Hand of glory your Saurus are working with a base 2I instead of 1 TG base 3I instead of 2 suddenly Initiative is looking like less of a problem. Sure lore of light can do it better but now that we don't have general Loremaster with a Slann you can't gaurentee you'll get what spells you want. I mean does it make the Basti an auto choice in lists? No but it gives it a place. Want to make him more survivable keep in range of a Steg with the engine. We have alot of new things and I don't think anyone should pass them off just because on paper they look bad.
The trouble I see with the swarm generator bastiladon is that he is basically useless outside of buffing up swarm units, so why not spend those points on more swarms in the first place? More swarms would be less vulnerable to shooting/magic and in general a more reliable option.
The solar engine is just a really poor mans engine of the gods. If it gave +2 initiative then it would be great. But just one isn't a very big difference, even when it comes to initiative test spells. Spending the points for this on skink skirmishers who could delay and whittle down the enemy before your saurus fight them is much more useful and reliable than 1 point of initiative, a crappy bound spell and 150 easy points for your opponent. An engine of the gods is a much stronger choice.
And again the bastiladon can easily be killed by a chariot or a cheap lone hero very quickly and without much risk to itself. I know my wood elf eagle nobles would eat one of these a turn. A level 1 on the lore of metal will destroy one of these like nothing., at least a stegadon has a few more wounds. I am not mentioning cannons because cannons kill all monsters, but not all monsters can be squished by a 80 point chariot...
The solar engine is just a really poor mans engine of the gods. If it gave +2 initiative then it would be great. But just one isn't a very big difference, even when it comes to initiative test spells. Spending the points for this on skink skirmishers who could delay and whittle down the enemy before your saurus fight them is much more useful and reliable than 1 point of initiative, a crappy bound spell and 150 easy points for your opponent. An engine of the gods is a much stronger choice.
And again the bastiladon can easily be killed by a chariot or a cheap lone hero very quickly and without much risk to itself. I know my wood elf eagle nobles would eat one of these a turn. A level 1 on the lore of metal will destroy one of these like nothing., at least a stegadon has a few more wounds. I am not mentioning cannons because cannons kill all monsters, but not all monsters can be squished by a 80 point chariot...
Kroxigor
Spiney Norman
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Sorry guys, but what were you expecting for 150pts
The Bastilodon is actually damn good for its points value, the ark of Sotek is a bit of a niche kit, clearly you're only going to run it if you're wanting to keep a swarm in the game, but an ark basti and a single swarm can potentially tie up a flank, remember that opponents fighting in the flank/rear of a basti don't get the bonuses for doing so, so he's a great unit to anchor your battle line. Also T5/2+ is pretty resilient for his points cost, and like all monsters he's really going to rely on his stomps to generate most of his casualties.
The solar engine looks more general purpose, I'm not personally a fan of bound spells, but it might be useful in smaller games, or if you're not running a Slann, either way the Int buff can be handy, both in combat (simultaneous striking with orcs/savage orcs) and when that purple sun threatens to roll up your flank.
At the end of the day the Bastilodon is crazy cheap for a monster, I say he's well worth it, and having out one together today it is one of my favourite kits, its so easy to assemble it as either varient and have them interchangeable, there is even enough crew for both set ups without sharing.
As far as I've seen the troglodon is really the only fail unit in the book, I'm very much looking forward to trying out everything else.
As far as special characters go Oxy is still way overpriced, most of the others seem pretty fair, although I'm not sure what to make of Mazdamundi. I'm not sure whether he is really worth his points cost (and you've got to be a bit mental to want a Slann on a Stegadon) but he is so expensive You can't field him until you are well past 3k, so its never likely to come up for me.
The Bastilodon is actually damn good for its points value, the ark of Sotek is a bit of a niche kit, clearly you're only going to run it if you're wanting to keep a swarm in the game, but an ark basti and a single swarm can potentially tie up a flank, remember that opponents fighting in the flank/rear of a basti don't get the bonuses for doing so, so he's a great unit to anchor your battle line. Also T5/2+ is pretty resilient for his points cost, and like all monsters he's really going to rely on his stomps to generate most of his casualties.
The solar engine looks more general purpose, I'm not personally a fan of bound spells, but it might be useful in smaller games, or if you're not running a Slann, either way the Int buff can be handy, both in combat (simultaneous striking with orcs/savage orcs) and when that purple sun threatens to roll up your flank.
At the end of the day the Bastilodon is crazy cheap for a monster, I say he's well worth it, and having out one together today it is one of my favourite kits, its so easy to assemble it as either varient and have them interchangeable, there is even enough crew for both set ups without sharing.
As far as I've seen the troglodon is really the only fail unit in the book, I'm very much looking forward to trying out everything else.
As far as special characters go Oxy is still way overpriced, most of the others seem pretty fair, although I'm not sure what to make of Mazdamundi. I'm not sure whether he is really worth his points cost (and you've got to be a bit mental to want a Slann on a Stegadon) but he is so expensive You can't field him until you are well past 3k, so its never likely to come up for me.
Saurus
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Well sure chariots will kill it if its just placed in the open...... It's not hard to protect him if you place your units properly and create a coherent battle line. Plus if its flanked with swarms, Saurus, skinks etc. I doubt he'd be easy pickins
I'm actually really liking Gor-Rok (surprisingly, I don't usually go for Special Characters)
2+ armour, toughness 6, makes a unit Stubborn and Immune to Psych, re-rolls failed to-hits at WS 5 and gets extra attacks on a 5 or a 6
Just a nice combination of durability and utility for the unit he's in.
2+ armour, toughness 6, makes a unit Stubborn and Immune to Psych, re-rolls failed to-hits at WS 5 and gets extra attacks on a 5 or a 6
Just a nice combination of durability and utility for the unit he's in.